Church of the Apostles (Atlanta)
March 6, 2005
That seems to be the mantra I’ve been living by the past two Sundays I’ve spent in Atlanta. First it was North Point. This week it was The Church of the Apostles. It is an evangelical Anglican church, though other than the kneelers on the pews, and a somewhat more formal liturgy for the Eucharist, you’d never know it was Anglican. The founding rector is Dr. Michael Youssef.
My mom wanted me to check it out, so I did. Around 3,000 members, a parking garage, a polished/produced worship band and massive amounts of people dressed their best. I was definitely the only person with jeans and Rainbow sandals. Anyone else ever been to this church? Thoughts?
Just a few things:
Thermodynamics
Dr. Youssef began his sermon talking about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, and said that he has just created the 2nd Law of Christian Dynamics, and this is how he summarized it: "In a believer’s life, a believer in Jesus Christ, for him, things always go from disorder to order, from the pit to the highest hill, for obedient children of God, they are always moving from glory to greater glory, from power to greater power and strength; they may be some hard times, but things are always progressing, always moving forward, always getting better and better." Yah, let’s just say that I, and I’m sure many others, have some SERIOUS issues with that. There was no qualification after that statement, no "I’m not saying you’ll never have any problems as a Christian…." — it was a straight out, "If you’re a Christian, life gets better and better."
Masculine Overdrive
A church that desires to "be in obedience with the biblical directive" and one whose "convictions are based upon the Word of God, not secular argument" obviously has limited roles for women in ministry (children’s ministry, other women’s ministries, etc.). When Dr. Youssef was preparing for Communion, a whole pack of men started to walk forward and I’ll guess there were probably 20-25 men behind him, surrounding him in a half-circle. I was just overwhelmed by the image of male dominance that was being presented…please don’t turn this post into anything discussing 1 Timothy or women in ministry, because I’m not having that conversation again now - but I don’t see HOW women can sit through a service like that that is SO male-focused and dominated…
I’m always torn between wanting to acknowledge that "obviously" this church is doing something that’s reaching a couple thousand people in the Metro Atlanta area, while I also have some serious issues with the theology and way of "doing church" they are committed to. I just know that it’s not a church I could attend, or ever work for. Tonight I think we’re going to check out a Vineyard contemporary service at 9.30pm - I’m sure it will be very different…
Tags: Church, Evangelicals
Posted in Ministry
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
March 6th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
I have grown up in the Assemblies of God denomination (very conservative, very Evangelical). My dad was an A/G pastor, and I grew up, got my AA, licensed, and just assumed it was for me. I am now a youth pastor in OK in a very similar type of church (although not a megachurch - but similar philosophy as you mentioned - although our version of the Eucharist leaves something to be desired). I married a Pentecostal girl. It was all very modern.
The thing is…in the last few years, we have gone through some experiences and changes that have completely rocked our worldview, our churchview, etc. We have (my wife and I) formed some serious questions (many like the ones you bring up). I guess you could say the deconstruction began, and we have become emergent Christians. There are many things about the Evangelical agenda that bother us, but we are working under a church (one that IS reaching some people) that we are intently questioning. I grow increasingly tired of our simplification of the Gospel (in the Pentecostal church particularly), but I have to believe that there are others of us on staff or maybe even in the senior pastor pulpit that are beginning to feel the same way.
Perhaps…just perhaps…there are changes on the way.
March 6th, 2005 at 4:57 pm
Hmm, doesn’t seem very Anglican to me in any way shape or form, nor does it mention any affiliations with any external Anglican organizations. Looks just like big ol’ megachurch with “Anglican” overtones.
The whole deal reminds me of something I’ve noticed before - have you noticed how megachurches tend to be built around a very driven (almost Napoleonic), charismatic (with a small “c”) pastor? IOW, it tends to be all about them?
March 6th, 2005 at 6:50 pm
blech.
March 6th, 2005 at 7:00 pm
trivia: john and patsy ramsey are members of church of the apostles.
March 6th, 2005 at 7:17 pm
looks a lot like christ church plano - the cathedral church for the current traditionalist movment in the episcopal church
March 6th, 2005 at 10:38 pm
Adam, look forward to discussing Church of the Apostles and North Point with you in person tomorrow night.
March 7th, 2005 at 12:00 am
Is his message the “gospel” or is this one large cult? I am serious.
March 7th, 2005 at 9:26 am
Keep in mind that the ordination of Women in the Episcopal church was established by force in the 70s, leaving many feeling hurt and abandonded by their church (not unlike what has happened in the wake of Bishop Robinson). It makes sense that those clinging to the “tradition” would establish themselves against the movement to ordain women.
March 7th, 2005 at 11:02 am
Just a thought here: I think boths sides of this issue seem to be unwilling to admit that they could be wrong. It doesn’t sound like I could attend this church either, but that doesn’t mean that my mother-in-law who would have a heart attack if women were ordained in her church could attend and find meaningful service and worship of Christ. I think the struggle for us all is to find the grace filled center where we can appreciate what each brother and sister of the Kingdom is doing and realize that we all have areas where we are missing the target. Just a thought
March 7th, 2005 at 3:29 pm
Joe and Barbara - there is nothing in this church’s website to indicate it is affiliated with ANY of the conservative Anglican/Episcopal organization, conservative or liberal.
At best it appears to be a non-denominational megachurch with a light flavoring of Anglican liturgy.
If that’s what floats your boat, fine, but let’s not pretend it’s in any way related to the global Anglican communion.
It is to Anglican what Mars Hill is to emergent :O
March 7th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
The point is that women’s ordination is a very recent (and yes, welcome) innovation in the history of the church. Most women who have attended church throughout their lives are not uncomfortable with male leadership because that’s what they know.
March 8th, 2005 at 12:52 am
“It is to Anglican what Mars Hill is to emergent :O”
Wow, well said! Too funny.
March 8th, 2005 at 1:05 am
I love that the fact that churches that aren’t fitting into the new “emergent” or “pomo” framework are suddenly labeled cult-like by your “followers”. Adam, you praised two guys from The Well because they founded a church when they had “given up on all other churches” and you speak of this church as though there is no one at this church in the same situation. Classic - it’s only relevant when it fits into YOUR framework.
And yes, i do find it sad that no women were being used in worship, I do want to see more women in leadership in the Anglican Church.
March 8th, 2005 at 1:54 am
Let’s be careful of phraseology here. I don’t think we want to go anywhere near “using” women in worship. Well I don’t anyway.
Allowing women to lead worship (in the true sense, not just singing in a band on a platform) and participate fully as equals is what we’re talking about.
March 8th, 2005 at 1:56 am
Oh, and how annoying must it be to be called “the lost”?
For more on that see the Off the Map seminars…
March 8th, 2005 at 4:17 pm
So, what about that Vineyard? You were there, what did you think?
March 10th, 2005 at 12:17 pm
My in-laws go to Church of the Apostles in Atlanta and I have had several opportunities to worship there with them when visiting. It has been exciting to me to see the way the Lord has used that particular body of believers to change the heart and mind of my father-in-law. I would say prior to Apostles, his life with Christ was nominal- “pursue health and wealth and try not to do bad stuff along the way”. But he is begining to see that following Christ looks very different than the journey he’s been on up to this point. Apostles may not be for everyone but this doesn’t negate the presence of Christ and His obvious use of the worship and teaching there to draw people to Himself.
March 28th, 2005 at 4:45 pm
I’ve been a member at Apostles for almost two years. I was a Youth Minister for ten years in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA ). I’m currently involved in the youth ministry as a volunteer at Apostles. Let me say that I’m glad that you came to the church and hope that you felt welcomed. I was there the sunday morning you were there when Dr. Youseff gave the sermon that you mentioned in your blog.
I’m sorry you felt like you were the only one wearing jeans and rainbow sandals. O.K. You may have been the only one wearing rainbow sandals, but the truth of the matter is that there are many people there who wear jeans to the morning services . I do not know where you were sitting, but you must have missed the teenagers and young adults that were were wearing jeans that morning.
I think you also were not listening to what Dr. Youseff said that morning because he did make a statement during the service about the christian life does have bumps in the road . There are several other bits of mis-information that you have made in this blog and I would encourage you to think about not writing something about a church when it sounds like you had only been there once. If I’m wrong about that I apoplgize. My intentions are not to blast you, I’m really not mad, even though an e-mail can come across as someone has just jumped all over you. tat is not my intent.
If I was someone who had never been to Apostles and I read your report on it, I don’t think I would be interested it visiting. Church of the Apostles is not a perfect church, but it is a wonderful church that the Lord is using to reach people all over the world and not just in metro Atlanta. Dr. Youseff is a very humble man and a man who loves the Lord, His Word, the lost and the saints and that is what he teaches week in and week out.
I hope that you come back and visit us again and hopefully we can have a chance to meet each other.
Mark johnston
June 8th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
You really should visit and hear a man preach God’s word, The good Dr. is God sent.