The ride I went on last week was a pretty popular ride for motorcyclists, so I passed a ton of bikers – some on Harleys, cruisers, sport bikes…actually, come to think of it, I was the only scooter. Anyway – while on the road, other bikers started to “wave” at me. Well – for some, it wasn’t really a “wave” per se, but just a lift of the fingers off the handle bars. Other bikers kind of just stuck their arm out and waved – some only waved with two fingers. It kind of looked like this:
If you want a somewhat humorous example of some of these types of motorcycles waves, you can check out this YouTube video. And there is another helpful article called “Secret Motorcycle Hand Greetings: Revealed!” One of my favorite descriptions was of “The Geek” motorcycle wave:
The Geek: Left hand raised high in the air as if to say, “Hi mom!” This one is specifically reserved for the new rider, who is “SO excited to be one of the gang!” Also may be seen being used by Moped or scooter riders. Recommendation: Just don’t.
Now – while I do fall into the new rider category (and a rider of a “scooter”), I just want to state that I have not done “the geek” wave (to see it, go here). So, after quite a few riders waved at me (again – there were guys on Harleys giving me the wave in the above picture), I started doing it as well. There were a few who didn’t respond – but the overall majority also stuck out their hand and gave me the two finger wave (yes, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t the one finger salute). I’ve heard of the “wave” before and how it was a way of showing camaraderie between other bikers – and that’s how it felt.
When I came home – I started googling about the “motorcycle wave.” And then I saw this tweet by @NathanielBishop:
So – now I seem to have a quandary. It seems that some think scooter riders shouldn’t really wave at other bikers. But then – what do I do when the Harley riders wave at me? Is it in jest? Am I not “really” part of the club? For those of you who do ride, here are some questions:
- Do you think it’s “hilarious” to see someone on a scooter giving the “motorcycle wave”?
- If I’m on a scooter and a guy on a motorcycle gives me the motorcycle wave, can I give the motorcycle wave back to him/her?
- Since I ride a scooter, am I only allowed to give “scooter waves” to other scooter riders?
- For those of you who ride scooters, do you give the “motorcycle wave” to any other riders?
If you are riding a scooter, you shouldn’t wave unless someone waves first. You aren’t on a motorcycle. You are on a child’s toy. I know, I know. It’s rough getting the truth but let’s consider your setup.
*You can’t go over 80mph, 60mph and maybe even 45mph
*You don’t need a special license.
*You don’t change gears. You have no clutch.
*You can’t accelerate to escape an angry dog.
Alright…well, “some guy in california” – normally I require that people use their real names, but since you got the conversation going – I will leave it and respond to your four points.
*It’s true, I can’t go over 80mph or perhaps even 60mph. The fastest I’ve gone on my scooter is 55mph…but that IS over 45mph.
*In fact, I wonder if you do live in California, because you’d know that anything over 50cc DOES require a special license. I need an M1 license – which is the standard motorcycle license
*It’s true. No clutch. I don’t change gears. I like that part – less work for me.
*I haven’t had to escape an angry dog yet – but starting off from stop at a red light, I’m still quicker than any cars…
I’ve been a little reluctant to do “the wave” to a guy on Harley – but all of the Harleys I’ve passed so far have waved at me.
Guys on sports bikes are a COMPLETELY other story…
@ some ASSHOLE in California,
I ride my scooter year round, today was the first day of the year that the temperature was actually warm. During the snowy months I only see 2 other scooters riding around. But when its nice all the motorcycles come out. I wave at em, and they wave back – me knowing the whole time that they are just a bunch of good weather riding, recreational pussies like you!
I’m a motorcycle rider and have been for 35 years. The “wave” you speak of is just that, a wave or greeting. We ride on two or three wheels and are experiencing life the way we want it. It’s dangerous because the cars don’t see us, nor do they care. We all share in the same problems, be it on a scooter, trike, Harley Road King, crotch rocket, or homemade job. It’s just people being friendly. If the greeting that you may ar may not recieve bothers or perplexes you, then ignore it. The rest of us will just keep saying “hi” and “ride safe” to each other with our “wave”.
Depending upon the scooter you may need a license. The difference is of course the Vespa or similar scooter can easily navigate the M1 license requirements.
I am not slamming you or scooter folks. I have ridden both scooters, cruisers and sportbikes. I use to own a sportsbike. The amount of skill, experience and training required is different and that is what creates the varying opinions on rider differences.
*I’m sorry I won’t use my real name. The reality is the stuff we write is forever. Pastors and employers will use what people have written in or out of context and make judgments and decisions based upon that information.
Some guy in California:
How silly. If you think that having gears and being able to go over 80MPH sets you in an elitist class that looks down on scooterists, I feel sorry for you.
Further, if you think that riding a scooter is any less skilled than riding a motorcycle, I would seriously suggest that you take a close look at what riding well, and safely, actually involves.
Physically controlling your machine is a very minor part of the equation. The vastly greater part is roadcraft – something we all need to continually work on.
I ride a “real” motorcycle – as I have for the last 34 years. I am also a motorcycle advanced riding instructor. I also regularly ride a scooter (which, incidentally, can do 90 MPH).
I have just as much respect for the scooter rider as I do the motorcycle rider. Possibly more so – because they’re clearly not “hung up” on the macho image thing.
When I’m out on the bike, I make a point to wave to the scooter riders – and I make sure it’s a “geek wave” as well.
Hey there Adam. Being the owner and rider of a 1978 150cc Vespa, a past owner of a Yamaha 150cc scooter (that has since been totaled after a car cut in front of me, flipping me over the car for about 20 feet to land on the street), and living in the Portland metro area (which is considered by some to be a sort of Vespa/scooter mecca), I have had a lot of fun watching your scooter transformation/spirituality and would love to give some of my own personal insight. Also, for the record, I also used to own a 1980 Honda 400cc, which was a fun bike. I think I noticed a difference in the “waves” between the Yamaha and the Vespa. For one, it seems people see the latter as an icon of the moped tradition, and given it’s vintage year I noticed that I got waves from just about everybody. There were a select few “weekend riders” with brand new everything who seemed to enjoy disregarding me, but about everybody who had the aged look of a veteran biker appeared to wave because they noticed a “classic”. The Yamaha, on the other hand, dropped down to around 75-85% of folks waving. I think they saw it more as a “toy”, as noted earlier. I did enjoy the automatic side of the “toy” as I was able to take any sports car I came across at red lights. The Vespa was a manual, making it virtually impossible to really get going quickly, but I enjoyed this as it was my second moped and had gotten past the initial joy of going fast, and liked learning the art of cruising. As I saw it, most folks liked to include me in the “family” on either moped, although I did feel more “recognized” on the Vespa (does that make moped riders the other?). Either way, the waves that were either withheld or offered for a laugh seemed to revolve around a sense of entitlement and respect. If my moped wasn’t as big or fast I was set aside. Since they have another vehicle that is faster or bigger they somehow feel they are owed respect. To me this is ridiculous, which is why I kept waving at everybody, especially the ones who wouldn’t wave at all. I think it was both the ego and exclusivity that really turned me off. I thought it defeated the whole sense of family a lot of us were sharing. Technically, my wave was usually a cross between a Harley with the two fingers and a sports bike wave. Whatever felt comfortable. Again, for me it was more about the sense of community, not so much the wave, even when I rode motorcycles. In fact, when I rode on my motorcycle I made a point of waving at everyone on two wheels with a motor so they could also experience that sense of community. I guess I’ve seen too much division/”sense of entitlement more than the other group” in other areas to care much about being non-inclusive. I’ve experienced it with skiers and snowboards, skateboarders and in-line skaters, short boarders and long boarders, hard sciences and soft sciences, head pastor and youth pastor, etc. That’s what I love about the groups of folks within each of these areas who focus on the community, they’re really chill and accepting, and a true sense of family really is established and immediately recognizable when you do run across it. So, there’s a few thoughts from my experience. Glad to hear you’re enjoying the moped, and keep on waving!
Adam -
When I was on my scooter, I tended not to wave to motorcyclists and got very few motorcyclist-initiated waves. I think there is something to the motorcycle community’s exclusion of scooters, not just because of the difference of the machines involved, but also due to the historic differences in demographics. Scooter riders tended to be adolescents or college kids who were looking more for cheap mobility, whereas motorcyclists embodied a different spirit. They tended to ride as a way of distinguishing themselves from the rest of society, took pride in being able to repair their bikes and customize them, and rode as a thrill-seeking endeavor (I think this is why you see such resistance to helmet laws, particularly among older motorcyclists). All that is changing – you see more adults on bigger scooters and many more motorcyclists who don’t even know how to change their own oil. So I say be on the vanguard of the two-wheeled revolution and wave to everyone. You may not get every motorcyclist to wave back at you, but it will break down that wall a bit.
And if you think your scooter is fun, you have absolutely got to upgrade to a bike. You can pick up a decent older bike for a song and have the fun of working on it yourself.
Adam – i’ve been riding a 49cc honda ruckus everyday for the last couple of years in texas, which is full of harleys. I always let a biker wave before i wave.
The “wave” can, as other posters have noted, become something of a biker fraternity thing. Some Harley riders won’t wave to “rice-burners” or “sushi-sleds.” Some crotch-rocket squids won’t wave to Harleys. This is stupid.
As the rider of a 600cc sportbike, I tend to wave to anything that displaces over 50cc. I’ve been known, on occasion, to wave to motorcycle patrol officers if it’s a beautiful spring day. I sometimes don’t wave if I’m in the middle of a turn or doing something that requires concentration. I never fail to wave when I’m riding in winter…when the thermometer gets close to/below freezing, there are far fewer of us out there.
Ultimately, though, I think riding culture will abandon the wave. As peak oil hits and more people migrate to more efficient two wheeled transit, there are just going to be too many of us on the road. That’s already true in most other countries, where oil is sanely priced. Can you imagine “the wave” in Vietnam? You’d never be able to put your hands down.
Maybe I suffer from some sort of elitism, but the moment I read your post, there was this half laugh half sneer that welled up within me and boiled over into laughter. In the seven years that I have been riding motorcycles, it has never even occurred to me to wave to someone on a scooter. No one on a scooter has ever waved to me. I think if someone did, I’d probably wave back, but I would get a good chuckle out of it.
I’m sorry but scooters are no where near comparable to motorcycles. You can say that scooters face the same risk on the road as motorcycles, but so do bicycles, and I don’t go waving to every 10 year old on a huffy either.
Part of it is that scooters are a toy for teenagers, college students, little girls with daddy’s money who want a hot pink vespa that will go with their shoes. It’s hard to consider that equal. Plus, just look at the position that the respective riders ride in: the scooter rider sits upright, feet firmly in front – kind of dorky really.
So hey, if someone waves to you, then great, wave back. No reason to be rude. I guess what’s inherently at stake here is that if you initiate the wave, you are declaring to the motorcycle rider that you consider yourself to be equal to him/her and the truth is, you’re not. After you’ve fully mastered the scooter, I encourage you to rent a Harley for a weekend (or if you have a friend who will lend you their motorcycle, ride theirs). I really believe that once you hop on something that’s at least 750 cc’s (which is still kind of small, considering that many bikes are in the 1100-1500 cc range) and begin taking this 650 pound beast around a sharp curve (once you really feel the weight of the bike and realize the immensity of what you’re riding), you’ll realize the difference between the two. Just my two cents.
Hey, thanks for the linkage! Glad you liked it. :-)
I have an e-bike (electric bike) that I’ve been riding for about a year so I decided to start my own signal here in Sarnia. We do the e-bike salute. Like we are in the army. The jeeps had their thing, motorcycles had theirs so that is what I decided would be ours. I’ve got a few people doing the salute…but I figure a real solid movement will take a few years.
For my two cents, I normally don’t initiate a wave at scooters. I did when I was first learning to ride, but I found they don’t often wave back, either because they’re not paying attention, or they’re the prick old dudes that have surly looks on their faces. For what it’s worth, if scooter guys do wave I’ll give them a wave back.
Harley’s (and insert other cruiser and touring type bikes here) are a different story, I’ll initiate a wave with them, most will reciprocate, but if they don’t they’ll see a bit of a different wave (… sans a few fingers) if they look in their mirrors.
Shelley -
I ride a 650cc thumper – its more than enough bike to put any scooter to shame. What’s with this obsession with engine size that seems to have seized motorcycling in this country? Its not just the size of the engine that differentiates a motorcycle from a scooter; its also using the clutch/shifting and being able to utilize the front and rear brakes independently. Its also about having a ride that isn’t all plastic. An older 350cc Honda is just as much a motorcycle as a 1500cc Harley and the former rider should be given just as much respect as the latter.
On a serious note, Adam, do not go and rent a bike, much less a bike that is much larger than what you are used to riding, until you have taken a motorcycle safety course. Mastering the scooter will improve your balance and cornering, but adding the extra dimensions of power and using all extremities will set you up for failure without additional instruction.
I used to drive campus buses back in grad school. We had the bus wave. Or maybe it’s the large vehicle wave. I didn’t wave at scooter riders (or motorcycles for that matter). It seemed to be just within the bus drivers. It was sort of a raising of the left hand off the steering wheel. Evidently it’s common among school bus drivers too. I drive the church bus on occasion (still have the license) when we go to handbell festival and I find myself giving the wave while doing that too.
The elitist motorcycle riders should clearly get over themselves. Until they can drive a 1958 GMC (THAT was driving a piece of history), they got nothing to sneer at.
Sandy
I never really thought about this. I ride a Vino 125 Yamaha, it will go 60mph and will hold its own anywhere but a highway. I’ve had 3 back surgeries so I needed something close to the ground, to sit up straight, less weight to control but still adequate speed. The no shifting is a nice bonus. I’m 45 yrs old & I had a moped as a teen and got ridiculed then by most so no big deal. I’ve gotten waves by other motorcyclists that seemed sincere?? I’m not into macho personas but a scooter is defined as a type of motorcycle and here in Ohio they don’t care if it goes 30 or 130 you need the same test & license as a larger motorcycle. I’m sure the skills test is easier because they are easier to control in case of a problem which I need. To all the “elitest” motorcycles- I give the two finger wave to say hi & be friendly. You can answer with the “one finger” wave or no wave at all and it doesn’t bother me a bit.
Someone linked this entry from the Toronto Moto Scooter Club. I find it an interesting topic.
I bought my scooter last spring, and when I took my first ride out of the city was surprised to notice all these bikers waving at me (this was the first I’d learned of the biker wave phenomenon at all). I think it’s a great tradition, and I almost always wave myself (though in the city it’s more often just a nod).
The way I see it, these Harleys who have probably been riding longer than I’ve existed feel that it’s right to wave at a little city slicker girl on a shiny new Vespa, who am I to say otherwise?
Meanwhile, I can’t help but notice all these other “real bikers” who feel they know better, and seem to have to prove their status by telling everyone just who is or is not part of the special club.
There are many reasons why a biker doesn’t return a wave. He’s busy watching traffic, he’s responding to a question from his passenger, or it could be that he just isn’t into greeting others for whatever reason. Gang riders tend to stick to their own and not acknowledge other bikers at all. I don’t let those things concern me. I wave whenever I see another two wheeled vehicle of any kind or any size. To greet someone with the biker wave and then be offended because it was returned diminishes the value of the wave. I wave because I have a sense of comaradie (sp) with the orher rider. If the other rider doesn’t share that feeling that’s fine. I don’t expect every rider in the world to be my friend, so one or two waves is enough to convince me that I’m doing the right thing.
“Some guy in California” sounds like the stereotypical ignorant speed-hog elitist motorcycle rider that most of us motorcyclists like myself try so hard to avoid looking like them. A wave is just a greeting, it doesn’t cost you anything, if you ride a moped/scooter and you want to wave to a big-boy motorcycle rider, do so. I ride a 1200 cc sport bike and I wave to all sorts of rider and return the gesture when they acknowledge me on the street. Adam, next time if you see a sport bike rider, just wave, who know he may wave back!
I recently purchased a Suzuki Bergman 400. I noticed the waves on my first ride out of the showroom floor. I wasn’t even paying attention. My wife was driving behind me to “protect” me from the perils of being a “green” two wheel motor rider. I’ve read most of the previous post and would have to respectfully disagree with those who think scooter can’t go over or near 80 mph. Get on a Burgman 400-or better yet-a Bergman 650 and you’ll see these bike carry some serious weight and can hang with motorcycles. The fact that I can go grocery shopping with no extra storage is very cool to me. I can fit 2 large bags of groceries in my bike and still have enough room for the wife on the back. 650 -here I come!
i’m also in cali, and i see scooters as kind of my little bros and sisters. you have to deal with cars and trucks just like me, so you’re a part of the rarified team of two-wheeled, exposed, gas-saving commuters and i therefore always include them in my waves. they often don’t seem to be expecting it, though, and scramble to return it. safety first, everybody, and take care of yourself before worrying about making a sign to a stranger that you’ll probably never see again.
I, too, am in California, East Palo Alto to be exact. I got my first motorized two-wheeled vehicle at the beginning of the month, a scooter, the SYM HD 200. I’ve always been a cyclist (pedal-it-yourself style!), but I am now so addicted to this scoot that I go riding almost daily in the Santa Clara Mtns., which are just a couple twists of the throttle away.
I’ve noticed almost all the motorcyclists (there are lots of them) wave at me on my scooter, and I wave back, or initiate a wave. I appreciate the gesture, and I also very much appreciate that they are riding very different beasts.
However, I would consider any motorcyclist who thought him-/herself too good to wave at a scooter or return a scooterists wave a real tool. If a person’s tiny, fragile ego is that heavily dependent on how many ccs s/he is displacing or on how many times s/he has to pull a little clutch lever with his/her left hand, then that person is clearly a deficient human being in a great many respects that have nothing to do with their preferred brand of motorized two-wheeled transport.
As I see it, we are all enjoying the liberating sensations of sun, wind, beautiful vistas, the smell of the flora, the speed, etc. That shared joy merits a wave of acknowledgement. I’m happy to say I almost always get it in my neck of the woods, and I’m always glad to give it to my fellow riders on their much larger steeds!
I was having a nice ride on my vespa scooter in the N.Ga. mountains when a Harley rider drove by. As he rode by me, he held his hand up to his face as if to avoid looking at such a silly sight. I just thought it was funny and ridiculous and CHILDISH. Goober!
I just bought my 250cc scooter and a Harley rider waved at me during my test ride. When I got back to the owner he said that happens to him a lot because the scooter is so large, at first glance, they think it’s a motorcycle. I waved back with more of a geek wave in the low position without two fingers. The only reason I did that is because I previously glanced at the real wave while in a car. The previous owner told me it was with two fingers and now on I will wave back properly only when I get a wave.
IMHO – there’s no need to be elitist and exclusionary when it comes to who we wave at or ignore on two wheels. I ride an 1100cc cruiser and I initiate or return a wave at everyone I see on a motorized two-wheeler including sportbikes, police officers, and yes – scooters. Over 90% return the wave if it’s safe and there’s time to do so. Admittedly – presumably because of being previously ignored by motorcyclists – some scooter riders are too surprised to be able to react quickly enough to return the greeting but I still hope my wave reassures them that their membership in the two-wheel community is respected.
The coed fraternity that we two-wheelers enjoy rests solely on the fact that we are gaining similar rewards and exposed to similar risks rather than the type of two-wheeler or size of the engine.
Of course not everyone feels the same way. I know Harley riders who refuse to wave at anyone that they determine is not on a Harley. That’s pretty sad and not good for camraderie.
Wave any way you want as long as it doesn’t look like a turn or stop signal.
What a non-issue. I ride both a scooter and a bike. Know what? Sometimes when I’m on the Kaw the guys on Harleys won’t wave back to me because I’m on a Jap bike. Guess what? Sometimes I won’t wave to a Harley rider first either because he’s on a Harley. If he waves at me I’ll wave back, if not, who cares. I’ve gone out on the scooter and exchanged waves with all kinds of bikes. Harleys, BMWs, you name it. Guess who was the only one not to wave back? A Vespa rider. I guess Chinese scooter riders are scum so why wave back? It must be nice to be one of the scooter big shots.
I ride a scooter all year round, I wave to everyone and during the winter I almost always get a wave back. If ya don’t wave back – than go f yourself.
Blah!
My scooter requires a cycle license.
My scooter not only has a clutch, it has a racing clutch.
My scooter does 45mph and 60mph, and gets to both faster than most motorcycles.
And oh yeah, my scooter can do 80mph, and I still get twice the gas mileage as your slower to accelerate motorcycle.
Take that. :)
I ride a 49cc Yamaha C3 year round when there’s no snow on the road. I get quite a few more waves than I thought I would when I first started riding it. I’d say about 30% of Harleys will initiate the wave on their own. So I am often caught by surprise when they do wave at me, and I end up extending my arm out far enough for them to see in their mirror once they pass. I’ve never initiated a wave to a motorcycle before mainly because I just assumed they would think it was silly, but after reading here maybe I’ll give it a shot.
I always wave at other scooters, of course. And once I save up enough money to buy my first motorcycle I’m sure I’ll still wave at scooters as well. The entire reason I got a scooter was to pay for a motorcycle with the incredible savings I’d have in gas money.
And plus, even though my scooter will only go a max of 45mph I can still have plenty of fun on it. I live in the mountains, so there are tons of roads that are just so curvy you can’t go much faster than that anyway without dragging.
As a new rider who recently purchased a Honda PCX 125cc scooter, I too, have been doing the “wave”. I will wave and wave back to anyone on a 2-wheeled motorized vehicle. I feel that we, as scooter riders, share the same risks as the larger motorcycle riders. I realize that scooters are not as powerful in most cases, but as far as the “fraternity” aspect of two-wheeled motorists, I see no problem in waving to a rider on a Harley or one on a 50cc Vespa.
We all should watch out for each other out there, especially when there are so many dangers that face riders.
Just my two-cents.
As a long time rider of Motorcycles I can say this, if your riding in the middle of the road at traffic speed you get a wave, if your riding on the side of the road and traffic has to pass you you don’t get a wave.
I’m on a 200cc Scarabeo scooter, and although I’ve been on mountain and road bicycles for a gazillion years, this is my first experience with a two-wheeled anything that’s not Wheaties-powered. I can’t believe how much fun I’m having riding this thing to work. It’s 64 miles round trip, but I look forward to the ride home all day.
It’ll go 80 mph, but I ride the speed limit. That sure makes some drivers pissy when they can’t push me to go 15 over, and sometimes they just have to prove a point and endanger us both to whip around me, and then we wind up 10 feet apart at the red light. Go figure.
This wave thing had me stumped at first. I didn’t have a clue what it meant when someone stuck out their arm. Did they want to change lanes or something? Then my husband, laughing himself sick, helped me out. Now I wave to everybody on two motorized wheels. Life is too short. Be friendly.
I ride a 97 Honda CB750, and just about everyone either waves or waves back. Usually, we’re both pretty much starting. Even when I’m wearing the kinda bright skid jacket my cousin gave me, since he wasn’t using it an it happened to match the bike.
As far as scooters go, I sometimes wave, if it seems like they’re paying attention and I’m not actually gonna put them at risk. But lots of times they’re just not with it, yet. I’ve got nothing against scooters at all, I used to ride one (albeit a 150). Still, the key thing for me is their weight. They just don’t weigh enough to keep you from sliding into something unmovable, and that makes them more dangerous than you’d think. Also, you don’t have anything for your knees to grip if you do go low, which aggravates that same problem. Just be safe and friendly!
I wave to generally all two wheeled rides I see on the road. Though I’ll admit I don’t wave to scooters. However, after reading some of these comments, I think I may reconsider. Regardless of the differences in complexities of our machines, we are all still on two wheels, open, and unprotected from crazy animals in their four wheeled cages. We all live and die just the same, so maybe I will start to wave!
Hay folks!
I am 76 years young, and I ride a VESPA 300, I started riding in highschool. my ride was a 1941 Indian Chief. This was a foot clutch hand shift, left hand throtle, with spark advance, for you wempy foot shifters. So now that I have progressed to a auto matic shift do I qulify for a Wave????????????????