As any seminary graduate can tell you, three years of seminary certainly don’t prepare you for everything that you’ll encounter in ministry. You often hear new pastors say they could write a book about “all the things they never taught me in seminary.” Normally these involve things like how to fix the air-conditioning, how to manage the intensity and busy-ness of various liturgical seasons and how to get wax off of carpet.
However, the number one thing that seminary does not prepare you for is how to deal with finances.
This is something I’ve been clearly aware of before in ministry, but was made even more aware of this evening as I sat through a meeting where the report from the Finance Committee took up a majority of the meeting. Granted, we are in the process of bulding a new Fellowship Hall, but I stopped counting the financial/accounting words and phrases that I just do not understand. Perhaps once I have to buy a house, take out a loan or deal with larger sums of money, then I’ll become familiar with these terms, amortization tables, spreadsheets and more numbers than I care to deal with.
Learning how to deal with a church budget (let alone simply a youth ministry budget) is something that was never touched on at all in seminary (during my four years at both Princeton & Columbia Theological Seminaries). But the thing is…I don’t really care…
I know that it’s important for me as a youth minister to be responsible and held accountable to the money entrusted to the youth ministry at the church I work at. I know it’s important for me to be responsible with money at home. And those are both things I’m not good at – haven’t had much experience with – and I’m learning.
But in those types of conversations during church meetings, I just find myself checking out.
I was thinking about this tonight because sometimes I think I would love to be a solo pastor. I don’t know that I have all the necessary gifts for such a call, but it’s something I think of from time to time. However, I just do NOT have the gifts of being able to deal with all of the financial issues, nor the knowledge of those kinds of things. And frankly, I don’t want to be in the know.
Maybe that makes me financially irresponsible. Maybe that makes me immature…I don’t know. But I don’t feel that it’s my calling to deal with the finances, nor to really have a strong grasp on it. There are people in the church – and definitely in my current church – who just “get” that kind of stuff, and volunteer their time and effort to work on such things. When we expect our pastors to have in-depth knowledge about such things, aren’t we simply feeding into this conception of the Pastor as CEO? Pastor as businessperson?
I have some great friends who are in the ministry who really do “get” this stuff – and I think that’s a great benefit to them and to their churches. But…that’s just not me. And I’m not feeling any strong desire to work on that aspect of my ministry any time soon.
What do you all think? Am I way off base here?
Update: Thanks to Kyle Nolan for this link to a clip of Walter Brueggemann addressing some of these very issues.
Related posts:
- A Program-Less Youth Ministry ‘Program’
- Minister for Youth & Young Adults
- Getting Back into Youth Ministry
- Tic Long Returns and Becomes New Executive Director of Youth Specialties
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Whether this feeds the CEO pastor idea or not, taking care of money is a reality in church life and pastors need to be equipped to handle that part of it. Or they at least need to hire people around them that can. Having a business undergrad degree is something I continue to stay grateful for because so many pastors just get a Bible degree and aren’t able to manage the other pastors on staff or handle their budgets (not saying this is you at all).
So for what it’s worth, I completely understand where you are coming from. My seminary experience didn’t prepare me either. In my opinion though it should have. Now I am not suggesting a full semester of classes on the topic of business but one class would have helped.
I am no longer in ministry but am running a non-profit and learning how to read a P&L and a balance sheet is important to the leadership of any organization. Knowing how to budget is also important.
My primary calling (as I would assume is yours also Adam) is people. I have always felt that the church does not need a CEO, it needs a shepherd. I am called to love and pour into people. That said though, I think it is difficult for any ministry to continue, if nobody involved had any idea of business, how to effectively raise money or how to budget income vs. expenses.
I can say that you aren’t the only one connected to PTS who recognizes some holes in their training. There are some folks working on helping.
As a solo pastor, you would not be expected to do it all. That’s what the Session (and where applicable, Trustees) come in. They have the life experience that you have not yet acquired, and SHOULD (big assumption) be willing to use it on your behalf.
Our Buildings and Grounds committee has engineers and gardeners on it. They bring the skills that are needed.
It’s the old First Corinthians “parts of the body” deal.
Adam, I have been a solo pastor for 4 years, and at first I totally felt like I was not prepared to deal with church finances. But what I have come to learn over these past four years is that, like you said there ARE people in the church who are gifted in the nuts and bolts of finances. As a pastor, I rely heavily on them and ask a lot of questions. At the same time, I constantly feed them what I know about theologies of stewardship, finances, etc to inform and guide their nuts and bolts stuff. I have found that works out really well. Let them focus on the details and you as the pastor focus on the big picture. Stretch their practical stuff with your theological stuff. It’s their church, you are there to guide, inform, teach, etc. They are driving the car, you are reading the map.
I think you can be knowledgeable about how money works in the church and not slip into a CEO role, or see the church as nothing more than a business. This is my second call; at my first the senior minister was an accountant before going to seminary. So I acquired a more hands-on style regarding church finances.
I appreciate knowing how money works in the church, where we stand, etc. I think the members appreciate the fact that I show an interest in these things, too – especially with the economy being what it is today. It makes them feel better knowing that their pastor is on top of things financially in the church.
Of course, the temptation is to make money the end-all-be-all of church life. And you’ll always come upon a few members who approach things with this attitude. As long as you keep the gospel message front and center, though, you’re in good shape.
This is where we get back to the preceding discussions about the ordination process. Our “training” process is set up such that a future pastor can go through the entire ordination and seminary process without ever going through a congregational budget cycle. I think that seminaries see their role right now as being the place where the theology, etc is imparted while the field education areas are the areas where the more “on-the-ground” matters are imparted. A student, however, could take a full year part-time CPE program and then a summer internship in a congregational setting and therefore miss out on church finances all together.
Again, if the process was centered more in the apprenticeship model, its likely that one would receive a greater exposure to these vital (although not exciting in any way) areas of ministry.
That being said…as much as we don’t like to deal with the $$$ of ministry, a dear friend of mine once said that ministry is never less than a matter of finances. As much as we struggle with it, the finances of a congregation dictate a great deal about what we can and cannot do in ministry settings. Its not an issue of faithfulness to God or unfaithfulness, but instead a matter of the reality of what we have before us.
Congregations can minister without a budget because a church does not need a building or a staff to be a church. But whenever those things come into the equation, congregational leaders need to be at least conversant in financial matters.
What Barry said: You don’t need to know everything–that’s not our call. But it doesn’t take too much to understand the basics–which really we should have gotten with our B.A. BEFORE seminary, or maybe even in high school. They don’t teach you how to use a phone in seminary, either–not because it’s not important, but because its a skill you should pick up somewhere else.
It’s not about being the CEO, it’s knowing enough to listen to and understand the money people, and practicing good stewardship of the gifts God gave you.
I agree with Mark. Helping people in the congregation answer the call to help with finance (or liturgical dance, bulletin board creation or whatever else isn’t your particular gift) does matter. That said, I still need to be able to sit in a Session meeting and not have my eyes glaze over when the budget is discussed.
I think those classes were offered in seminary (at least at Columbia) but were electives that I didn’t take. That’s the struggle, I think. There are people at seminary who will never serve a congregation, so I understand why those kinds of classes aren’t required. But for those of us who will serve congregations, there are just classes that were more interesting (for me, at least) than many of the practical ministry classes. Nobody to blame but myself for not taking them. Could or should the seminary (or my advisors) urged me to take more practical classes? Would I have listened? who knows.
Luckily, I’ve had lots of years of church experience before seminary that equipped me to read those crazy documents that are church budgets. And to anyone who serves as solo or head of staff, I would say that no matter how many gifted people you have around you, the reality is that you need to stay on top of the finances yourself too.
Once we start requiring more and more courses in the seminary curriculum, we’ll have no room for electives … at my seminary (Lutheran Seminary in Philadelphia, though I lived at Princeton for two years while my wife did her PhD studies) courses on administration were offered as electives, yet many students chose to take a course on liturgy and pastoral care, or Luther’s reflections on bodily functions, rather than administration. That is, what we want to study in seminary doesn’t necessarily translate to what we need in the parish. That’s where well-done apprenticeship experiences (field education) come into play.
A friend of mine was a lawyer before he entered seminary. He tells me that in law school he learned law, whereas he learned how to write a brief and argue a case largely on internships and in practice. Though I think it could be helpful to learn some of these administrative pieces in a classroom setting, they are more likely to be learned – and retained – in a practical setting.
One more thing … and not to be too hard on you, Adam, but I’m not sure that we can just handpick our perfect ministry setting (one with X but not with Y). We who are entering ministry or in ministry (I was just ordained in December) have to be prepared for the wide scope of what takes place in the parish. We needn’t – we can’t – be experts in everything, but we do need to be generalists in some respects, even if we have our particular strengths and weaknesses, interests and turn-offs. I too don’t like finances – I’m not sure what it means to have some of our funds in an annuity, for example – but it’s a terribly important reality about which we must learn.
Peace.
As a PTS alumnus (2002), I agree with you that certain things are missing in the overall approach that would result a common-sense seminary education, and finances are an especially important one. For example, in most churches that new graduates will serve, their salary and benefits package could well be the single largest expense of the church – you need to be able to know enough about finances to understand how the church’s funds are being used. Also, I will say from experience now in two local congregations as the solo pastor, safe-guarding designated funds from the rest of the money is exceptionally important. You’d better at least know what terms like “designated funds,” “memorial fund,” and “general budget” mean before you take over the sole pastoral leadership of a congregation. Not sure what the seminary could do to make it better. When I was at PTS, in our basic preaching class we had to preach a funeral sermon. I thought that was a good, practical idea. How about giving students the option of preaching a funeral sermon or a stewardship sermon?
Several items: 1) warning before taking a call, 2) “designated funds”, 3) budget tensions, 4) resources, 5) compensation, and 6) miscellaneous. (Sorry for the long post. This is an important topic though.)
1) Trust everybody – but check the financial reports. In the PCUSA it’s easy to get the past 11 years worth of reports on the website. This will show total giving for each year (assuming the clerk or pastor have turned in the data), as well as a look at how much is given per attendee and per member. Then check the latest Treasurer’s Reports before accepting a call. I have a friend who took a church that was in serious decline. They said they had enough funds to last for several years, but it turns out that within one year it became clear that they had enough reserves for only one year – so he was out of a call because he didn’t ask questions and check the balances of their operating funds.
2) Designated Funds are poorly understood, and I disagree with something Larry said – “safe-guarding designated funds from the rest of the funds is extremely important”. Technically, for a contribution to be “charitable” and thus “deductible”, it cannot be “designated”. In practice, if someone donates $3000 for the worship committee to spend on new equipment, then we almost always follow their wishes. Failure to do this means others may not contribute to their pet projects. But to be a charitable gift it must not come with “strings attached”. Session is free to use all charitable funds in the way they see fit.
3) Some Elders (or Trustees) look at each line item in a budget as though that is the maximum that can be spent on that line item. This has the unfortunate affect (on those with “control” over the allotted amount in a specific line item) such that they will spend every dollar so that they protect their budgeted amount for the following year. There is no advantage and no purpose in NOT buying things if there is money left at the end of the year. Others look at the TOTAL budget as important, figuring that the best guess is always going to be wrong – some to the positive side and some to the negative. We blew the worship budget this year by ordering cases of two different kinds of candles – an infrequent purchase, with both happening in the same year. We spent $128 more than what was in the budget, and this is before ordering special bulletins and the like. We are still under total budget for five months into the year, so it’s not a problem here. You need to know which system you’ve got, or you are going to have nasty-grams from the treasurer.
4) Resources abound. In “Twelve Keys to an Effective Church”, Kennon Callahan list item 12 as “Solid Financial Resources”. In 11 pages he lays out the important items you need to know: Stewardship, current income, endowment and assets, indebtedness, understanding that money follows mission and that people give to people (not to programs). There’s more, such as potential financial resources, and long-range planning. You can easily check this out from a library. If you do some lectionary preaching, there is “The Clergy Journal” which has a monthly article under the heading of “Faithful Finances”. This section also has a list of “5 Things to Do This Month”.
5) Compensation packages. If your seminary didn’t sit you down to talk about this, then they are doing you quite a disservice. I’m not really talking about trying to negotiate for the last dime, but in understanding how it all works. You will be considered self-employed, and will have to pay quarterly taxes on what you will likely owe on April 15, and this includes both halves of Social Security. You need to understand that you need receipts for payment of all your allowances. If they just divide your car, housing, and educational allowances by 12 and pay that amount each month then you owe taxes on these as income. I’m currently under the minimum cash salary for the Presbytery recommendation, but that is only enforced in the first year here. Knowing that I pay 15.3% of my cash salary to the IRS, I prefer to keep the cash salary low, and take much of my compensation as allowances. I order plenty of books, technology items to be used in ministry, and this year needed to cover a mission trip/educational experience to Asia from my “Professional and Educational Expenses”. Every dollar I am paid for these items is vouchered. Most have a few hundred in this, while I asked for 4k. I also get a large vouchered amount for Household Expenses and also for Travel Expenses.
6) I do my own taxes, but few have the understanding or patience to figure it all out. To me, it’s not difficult at all, but I have a B.B.A with a major in management and minor in accounting. I’ve also got a degree in computers, and statistics are one of my hobbies – so I’m rather detail oriented. Before going to seminary I was church treasurer for 4 years, and administrator for 2 years. I also ran the sound, lighting and projection for a few years. Our seminary did have a required senior course titled “Leading Christian Communities” in which we had several required textbooks and several panels on various topics over the full senior year.
The seminary faculty and trustees have to determine which courses are most important, and still allow some flexibility with electives. I only got 18 hours of electives, and that’s with taking an extra 3 hour course. It’s not easy balancing everything. It would help some students if there were a course on sound systems, or any number of practical concerns.
One of the biggest sources of problems for pastors is financial – so you will do well to get educated enough to avoid the biggest problems: not having enough $ set back to pay the IRS, living beyond your income, not knowing to have the church financial records audited each year, and not having safeguards on the handling of money (there’s plenty of embezzling going on – and this can bite you hard).
Also realize that giving can be rather seasonal. Some people write one check per year to the church. Some will give at the beginning of one year, and at the end of the same year (to maximize their deductions for that year), then not give at all the following calendar year, before repeating the process. In rural areas, our attendance and giving are down in Summer. So, don’t take the budget and divide by 12 or 52 to see how things are doing. Some folks don’t give until the end of the year. An experienced church treasurer will realize these things, but it can be disconcerting for someone who assumes the giving ought to be the same amount each month.
For a nice article regarding leadership vs. managership, check out “A Personal Journey in Leadership” by PCUSA pastor Andy Little… http://revandylittle.com/2009/05/27/a-personal-journey-in-leadership/
http://bit.ly/17P0oU <- breuggemann on this topic
I’m a second-career solo pastor and a 2003 graduate of PTS. Entering seminary I never considered I was being called to a solo pastor; lo and behold, I realized that I was looking at more CIFs for solo pastorates than ap positions. So here I am.
From my previous management experience, and three years as a Session elder, I had some understanding of budgets and finances. I’ll reiterate what Mark said; as pastors and Ministers of Word and Sacrament it’s not part of our calling to be financial wizzes; it’s one of Session’s responsibilities. But to not glaze over in the financial discussions, it doesn’t take much to have a basic financial knowledge of budgets, what’s coming in verses what’s going out, etc. As someone who also has a strong accounting background there are some practices that drive me a little nutty – nothing unethical by any means – but you find that in the church, especially small churches.
In defense of PTS – one of my pastors who was also an alum advised me to focus my electives on subjects that I could get nowhere else – Bible, theology, preaching – with the understanding that most of the practical knowledge you pick-up through internships, pastoral mentors, and in the real-life day-to-day practice of ministry. I took his advice and it’s worked well for me. The PCUSA Board of Pensions also offers financial seminars for seminary grads. I remember them coming to PTS and at the time, I couldn’t be bothered. But it turns out that if you take the course and you end up serving a small church, there is seminary debt assistance available. I ended up going to Austin Seminary last year and taking the course, and I wished I had taken it in seminary. It covered so much in the way of church budgets, negotiating terms of call, getting out of debt and avoiding debt altogether, and sound personal and church financial practices. It was well worth it. So, perhaps finances aren’t covered in seminary courses, but the knowledge is available through denominational resources. And in the parish, solid wisdom is just a phone call away to a trusted advisor.
God calls us where God nees us to serve with our gifts, and will give us everything we need to be faithful and obedient to that calling.
You also need to have a handle on things financial so that the person creating the spreadsheets doesn’t get undue power. People who understand finances have honest disagreements, and you need to be able to stand toe to toe with them and disagree with their judgments if need be and not be bulldozed by their expertise.
I think one of the things I appreciate in the Presbyterian polity is the distinguishing between Ruling Elder and Teaching Elder roles. With this arrangement, the pastor’s sense of call doesn’t have to rely on their knowledge of finance and accounting.
However I wish more seminaries taught students how to engage the experts. You can learn to ask sharp questions of those who hold the purse strings and those who manage the purse, without having to be a financial wizard. I believe the pastor needs to find a place from their own calling, skills and experiences they have accumulated, to teach the Gospel; in this case to question whether the community is spending its resources appropriately. We don’t have to know the ins and outs, but we do have to be able to help interpret financial decisions as the way we communicate our Gospel. We have to discern how a budget is both a tool for ministry (in both Church and home) and at the same time a “moral document.” The challenge is to find creative ways to broach these subjects so that they just aren’t the purview of designated stewards of money, and so that each member of the congregational body understands how interpret their own financial decisions in light of the Gospel.
While PTS was in the process of revamping its curriculum, I had hoped that they would consider a one credit course during the jr. year that was pretty much a “ministry life skills” course. Now while there were many students that came to PTS with these “life skills,” I also noticed a lot of students that couldn’t balance their own checkbook, didn’t keep track of spending, had very little time management skills, didn’t have the first clue about professional boundaries (confidentiality, etc…), and the list could go on. Do I think it is the seminary’s job to ensure that students have “ministry life skills”? No. But I do think that requiring or at least offering a course could be good for the alumni reputation and for the Church as a whole to help reduce some of the classic pitfalls of ministry.
I wonder which fields do train members for this? Before seminary I completed a MA in Counseling and state licensure…no financial training there (even though many were going on to solo practice). No training for it in seminary and none in the last year as I’ve completed my Certificate in Non-Profit Management.
Obviously large numbers of people need the skill set-but where are we supposed to learn it?
Thoughtful post as usual Adam!
I would agree with the notion that this is a gap in our educational system as a whole. I really like Walter and the video you included as well as the post and commentary having to do with how this should be something that we learn in high school. Fiscal responsibility and knowledge is something that some have gifts in (for sure), but everyone (clergy “map readers” and “drivers” alike) and I mean everyone need skills and knowledge in.
I fear that many parents neglect taking the time to really teach their children because of embarrassment of their own choices in life while academia neglects this essential component for “higher purposes” and here we all are in the midst of financial chaos looking back thinking, why didn’t ANYONE take the time to speak to the importance of this topic and get into the nitty gritty beyond the general “being good stewards” stuff.
Now, as I sound all cynical and bitter and all, I want to stress the importance of us all taking responsibility and valuing this stewardship mentality to the point where we all are contributing toward responsible behavior and not just the gifted. I say all this as one who completely identifies with the voice of that of Adam who loathes the topic because of feeling so unengaged, bored, lost and confused about so much of it. As much as I love Walter and the things he has to say and as much as I appreciate the importance of specialization, I think that there is need of specialization to a point of not neglecting the ones of the body… the hand can’t say to the foot that I don’t need you or you go walk and I will keep to my grabbing. As any gymnast would attest to, there are times when it is beneficial for our hands to do the walking and that only happens with a body that is cooperating as one with the mind.
So, I conclude saying to myself and to us all… be specialized, but not too much. ;) Let us never be afraid to learn new things and allow those new skill sets only compliment our own specialization.
i think there were workshops on finances annually at my seminary… but i never attended any of them. I think i’m probably financially screwed, but it’s hard to tell when you barely have a clue what’s going on… maybe ministers have too much of that ‘trust in the lord’ mantra to really dig into it all.
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