When I was at the Everything Must Change Tour, I got the chance to speak with Samir Selmanovic. I’ve run across Samir’s writings before, as he has a chapter in An Emergent Manifesto of Hope entitled “The Sweet Problem of Inclusiveness: Finding Our God in the Other.” He’s also currently working on a book for Baker Books entitled Losing My Religion and Finding the Kingdom of God.” Samir is beginning a faith community in Manhattan called Faith House Manhattan. I got a chance to speak with Samir about the community a little bit, and found his hopes for the community incredibly inspiring and hopeful myself. The mission of Faith House Manhattan is below:
OUR MISSION: We want to start a new kind of community in which we can discover The Other (individuals or groups other than those we belong to), deepen our personal and corporate journeys, and together participate in repairing the world. In this endeavor we will honor and learn from teachings, practices, and suffering of people from religions, philosophies, and worldviews, different from our own. Instead of isolating ourselves into like-minded groups or melting together into a single-minded organization, we will learn to live together with our differences and in a way that contributes to the wellbeing, peace, joy, and justice in the world. In this endeavor we will always be a courageous, hospitable and learning community.
I think this is a beautiful portrait of the kingdom of God and I only wish I lived in Manhattan and could take part in such an experiment. Certainly it will not be without its own challenges and difficulties, but what a wonderful possibility for community, hope and working together for the kingdom. Of course, Samir and this faith project will obviously (and unfortunately) be criticized by folks like those at Apprising Ministries, but I hope they are able to find encouragement within their community and from those who aren’t able to be a part of the community but support their goals of learning from the other, deepening their lives and healing the world.
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I don’t know enough about the ministry itself to give an opinion about it specifically. But I do like the idea of recognizing our need to work with people of different belief systems toward a common goal. I think that’s necessary.
I think most looming danger, however, is to say that those other religions all have an equal hold on truth. We can learn from other religions without a doubt, but we must guard against saying “Meh, we’re all going to heaven anyway.”
It’s really a two-edged sword. On one hand we need to embrace people along with their religion and worldview. On the other we have to remember that the only way to heaven, and the only way to a relationship with God is through faith in Christ alone.
Samir says we: “deepen our personal and corporate journeys…we will honor and learn from teachings, practices, and suffering of people from religions.”
But God says: “they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons… Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?” (1 Corinthians 10:20; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15).
To paraphrase a famous statement: “Faith House Manhattan – we have a problem.”
Mr. Silva, I never knew that Paul was God. I always thought Jesus was God. Guess I should have paid more attention in Sunday School. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Thanks for this post. It’s rare to find such wonderful places.
what a beautiful portrait of the hope and love of God, the ultimate Other. Anywhere there is Love there is God. To bind God within one creed is to make an idol of God.
Chris,
You might wish to stow the sarcasm: “I never knew that Paul was God… Guess I should have paid more attention in Sunday School.”
Yes, I should say you should have. I never said Paul was God. Let me show you how this works in proper Biblical hermeneutics so you won’t make a fool of yourself.
1) 2 Timothy 3:16 informs us — All Scripture is God-breathed”… 2 Peter 1:20-21 says — Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”
2) Speaking “from God” Peter tells us – “[Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures.” 3) This means the quotes from Paul in my previous comment come from “Scripture.”
4) Since all Scripture is “God-breathed” – i.e. a creative act as in when God breathed life into Adam – then 5) God spoke through Paul, and as such what Paul wrote is what God wrote. Therefore I am correct to say “God said.”
It’s funny to watch people “pick up the rope”…
Mr. Silva,
Your logic is impeccable. You are truly a master of biblical hermeneutics. Your exegetical moves are simply breathtaking. Do you have any openings for apprenticeships? Don’t worry, I am a male….Chris isn’t short for Christine or anything.
I’m just so tired of not having all the answers, you know? Clearly the answer is not spending time with Jews or Muslims, since God tells us not to in 1 Corinthians. What’s hard is that so many of them seem to be honest and decent people. That tricky Belial! Those crafty demons! Thank the Lord for your precious insights, Mr Silva. The next time my Jewish seminarian friend David calls and asks if I want to get together and grab coffee and talk about what we’re learning in seminary, I will put him in his place. “What does light have to do with darkness, David?” BLAM! “Don’t come near me with your demon sacrifices David….or should I say, Belial.” BLAM! God and Mr. Silva will be so proud of me for doing God’s will as expressed in 1 Corinthians.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is loving, saving, gracious, universal in its offer, and it is redemptive. It is also exclusive and it also divides…eternally.
Hey, thanks for posting this Adam. I’ve wanted to meet Samir for a while now, ever since I heard his message “Finding God in the Other” on Emergent Village. Beautiful message, and he talked about Faith House in it a bit. Glad he’s getting it going. I applaud Samir’s willingness to “transcend” religion, recognizing that all religions are man made paths. Thankfully we have a merciful and gracious God who will find us on those paths, if we have “eyes to see.”
How’s the apartment search going? Was Craigslist good for that or no?
This looks super interesting. I wish I lived in Manhattan too!
Cheers
Sarcasm can add poignancy to a point in a debate. Unfortunately, as seems to be the norm in the elitist academia surrounding the emergent church, the point is usually missing, but the sarcasm is there by buckets. It really smacks of one of the things that EC has been critical of in the modern church… it comes across as, I am so much smarter than you and have it all figured out (even if that means I SAY I don’t have it all figured out) so I am going to discount what you say and minimize scriptural support… because well… I am so smart. A self-perpetuating theology based on nothing more than feelings and agreement with other’s that feel the same as we do. Even the basic premise of UNIVERSALISM (which is ultimately what is being argued here) is based on something more than “well we feel that way”. It comes from PIECES of the scripture that people use to support their belief. The ultimate proof-texting you could say. So to assuage someone for using the scripture to support their belief is intellectually dishonest at best or purposely wicked at worst. If GOD is who YOU (or me, or Ken, or whomever) believe He is simply because you believe it, then He is no God. God revealed himself; He used signs and wonders to prove it. So what have you got (besides bitter sarcasm?)
Read these comments here. Sure everyone loves a god that they create… But does their god match up to the God of the Bible?
Jesus is the Truth, not “a” truth. We relegate Him to little more than a teacher when we contradict Him and say that all paths lead to god. We set him up as a Mohamed, a Bhudda, or a Confucius. It’s no wonder that we continue to see such confusion in the church today, because we can never KNOW anything with this belief system (and if it’s not provable that’s exactly what it is) because there is no TRUTH. Not only that, but it’s trite, really. Things that are the opposite are not the same.
Mr. Senz,
There is no debating with Mr. Silva. Many have tried and just as many have failed. Look at his website forum if you need evidence of this.
Knowing there is to be no conversation with Mr. Silva, I am left with three options:
1. Ignore him. Why I didn’t do this: lack of self-control. I was seething at his
instant and absolute condemnation of Faith House. I had to say something. It’s a
‘youth’ thing. I hope to be over it in a few years.
2. Swear at him. Why I didn’t do this: utilization of existing self-control.
3. Sarcasm. My personal (albeit flawed) via media.
Maybe one day I will be the kind of person who can offer a blessing to the Mr. Silvas of this world. I’m just not there yet.
The problem seems to be the belief that having faith in faith is the goal rather than having faith in God. As Mr. Senz said in his comment (albeit to make a different point), EC guys seem to be intelligent people. That is why I find their acceptance of any belief as truth to be so baffling. The implication is that we can believe in whatever god we choose, and somehow all be right in what we believe. This doesn’t work. Just because we believe something, that doesn’t make it so.
Add to the fact that problem that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, for example, all claim exclusivity. In their sacred literature, and in their doctrines, each of these religions claim to be the only religion and warn against other beliefs. So, we must either accept one of these as true, or reject them all as untrue. There is no third option.
In looking at the webpage of Faith house here are some glaring problems that can be seen right away…..These are cut and pasted directly from their website:
“Faith House will seek to bring progressive Jews, Christians, Muslims, and spiritual seekers of no faith to become an interfaith community for the good of the world. We have one world and one God.”
The problem with this is that last sentence. The God of Christianity is not the same as the god of Islam, Hinduism, or any other religion.
” I assume that God is in “the other” too, not in an exclusive possession of my group.”
No…God is not in the other
“We will not seek to establish one generic religion in the house. Instead, we will seek to establish one humanity that serves one God with many voices.”
Question here is which God will the one humanity serve?
@Eddie: I agree. Those statements flirt too closely with Universalism and/or Unitarianism.
There is a difference between saying all religions have an equal hold on truth and saying that no religion has a complete hold on truth. I think the latter is likely the emphasis for this ministry. To say that all religions have an equal hold on truth leads to meaningless conversation. To say that no religion has an absolute hold on truth leads to critical self-examination in light of opposing thoughts and views.
Also, what part of there being one God over all is contradictory with traditional Christianity? The statement, as it stands, would seem to agree with even exclusivist stances. There is one world. There is one God. The problem comes when we *interpret* what they are saying.
@unorthodoxology: I agree with you. I think that no religion has a complete grasp of all truth, including Christianity. There’s certainly a lot of truth Christians can gain from Islam, Buddhism, etc.
I also agree that it’s easy, generally, to say there is one God. Of course, certain religions would see this statement as false, such as Hinduism, but for the sake of argument we can agree that Islam says there is one God, Judaism says there is one God and Christianity says there is one God. The problem arises when we change the wording or the meaning of “one God” to “the same God.”
“There is one God.” Correct; the one true and living Truine God revealed in the Bible. Therefore the “gods” of all religions do not exist. Religion is only man revealing he knows instinctively there is a God.
“I think that no religion has a complete grasp of all truth, including Christianity.” Your problem is Christianity is not a religion at all; rather, it is a relationship with the only God there is obtained only by God’s grace alone; through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Our Creator, Christ Jesus of Nazareth, is this one God in human flesh and His Spirit wrote the Bible through men like Paul. This means it is God Himself Who informed us through Paul why religious powwows like Selamnovic’s pipe dream are forbidden: “they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons” (1 Corinthians 10:20).
O please tell me that you guys are not actually this spiritually dense.
Ben,
I’m not so sure your characterization of Hinduism is exactly correct. Of course, there are myriad strains of the fait, but the Hindus I’ve spoken with and read, particularly Vedananda, speak of the Divine, as the One Ultimate Reality. That’s just what I’ve learned from some conversations with local Hindu monks. So I think we must be careful how we characterize other faiths. For instance, many Muslims would characterize Christianity as tritheistic and we would certainly disagree with that, I think.
True, one God and the same God are completely different ideas. But I also think there are many Gods worshipped in Christianity. The God (my conception of God) I worship differs vastly, I would guess, from the God (my conception of God) worshipped by other Christians.
Of course, Christianity says there is one God, but the power conventional faith ascribes to the satan, in other religions, make this being a “god.”
Ken, thank you for your comment and concern. I doubt we will see eye to eye on this subject, but I appreciate your willingness to share your faith with me. If indeed you are right, I will trust God that the word spoken by you will not return void. Blessings.
Thank you for the correction. *blush*
God, god, Gods, gods, one god, two or three gods, it is all nothing more than theological badminton. Only one faith has a Savior, the rest are systems of divine hierarchy devised by the inherent searching of man’s heart and so he invents a divine mirage that seems to soothe his conscience.
If there is a God but He cannot be known then His existence is irrelevant to mankind. If God has not made Himself known, then He cannot be known. Can an ant know a human by his own devices? Jesus was God revealing Himself in an unmistakeable and extraordinary incarnation.
Unless He was just another religious nutcase. You should ask Him, He will tell all who sincerely seek Him through His written revelation.
Paul advises Timothy in 2 Timothy 3:5 that many will have a form of godliness but deny the power of God and in verse 7 he goes on to say that they will be “ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” Those who rightly divide the word of God are few and far between these days. I can’t imagine the sadness that God must have to see His word diluted and twisted and reduced to fit the box that Faith House has created. Did they not learn from the OT the problem the Israelites were continually warned about: do not be misled by foreign gods. I guess if the Bible isn’t seen as an authoritative text then it’s warnings would have no merit.
Okay–sidestepping the back and forth going on above–I’m nervous when people say stuff like “losing my religion and finding the kingdom of God”, as if the KOG could be something separate from following Christ, and specifically, following in the way of Christ as professed by the church’s Scriptures and confessions. There’s always more light breaking forth, but I’m suspicious of starting with KOG and then trying to work backwards into what Christology means, rather than starting with the origins of the KOG–Christ–and working outwards.
This isn’t to say that there can’t be all kinds of cooperations or learning from how different traditions practice: Aquinas, for example, wrote the Summa in the context of dialoguing with Averroes, a Muslim interpreter of Aristotle. But that’s a different thing than saying saying that it’s a priori bad to learn from a “like-minded” group. Without formation in one direction, there can be no engagement with anyone else, for we lose anything distinctive that we might offer in conversation, and conversation ultimately disintegrates, leaving us not with “celebrated differences”, but a new, a-morphous like-mindedness.
Blessings of Grace and Peace. I am greatly honored to stand on the blood-stained ground next to Samir and Samir’s best Friend Jesus who possesses Samir to emulate Him forever! Show me someone else worthy of our Obssession! Come follow me Jesus says not your own understanding! Trust in the Lord with all your Heart as Samir is bravely doing not your club of cloned self righteous minds hiding in a paranoic fearfilled cave of cognitive self worship begun by Lucifer so long ago. Lean not on your own understanding but surrender all to Jesus alone and pray for/bless/do good to those who have a different attitude/belief/world view to you. Let your light shine for others benefit. Trust in the Lord with all your heart not your own self protective attitudes. Save your life with an arrogant selfish style of “God bless me my wife my son my daughter us four and no more” attitude and you will lose it all. Or as Samir has done take your wife and 2 children on an Abrahamic journey of faith away from the luxuries and safeties of the familiar that the above writers advocate -to a land he knows not where and you will be saved! Like Jesus- acknowledge God by obeying the Holy Spirit as Samir has done -and goling to visit the woman at the well who may think/act/believe different and have a different truth to you and like Jesus ask her for a drink! Instead of being paralysed by fear of demons wash yourself in the blood of the Lamb and follow Jesus to the cemetery and speak your Truth to the other even a fear inducing demon filled man that all others are afraid to associate with in case they contaminate themselves with error go with Jesus to your demoniacs speak your truth to the other and remember as you enjoy the ensuing hogicide that Jesus builds bridges and satan builds walls to hide fearful of the Light. Rescue the perishing instead of hiding away from your brothers and sisters. Follow Jesus to the cross lay your self righteous filthy rags with me at the foot of the cross and receive a glorious and righteous garment with not one stitch of human devising and go ye into all the world bearing the good news that we are all worse than we want to know about and God is better than we have ever dreamed of and his blood is a gift to whosoever hindu moslem jew chrstian atheist humanist anyone wise enough to believe in Him whose name is life love light bread truth and every good and best thing. Anyone who loves is born of God. Anyone who says they are born of God and does not love is a liar and has no truth.
Tony T.,
Wow dude; a little tip for ya, man you really have to keep the potato salad refrigerated!
Reminds me of Pete Rollins and ikon in Belfast, N. Ireland.
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