PresbyMeme 5
April 1, 2008
So I’ve been tagged (not once, but twice) to participate in the PresbyMeme that Bruce Reyes-Chow started. So I suppose that means I should take some time and put together a post. The rules are pretty basic:
- In about 25 words each, answer the following five questions;
- Tag five Presbyterian bloggers and send them a note to let them know they were tagged;
- Be sure to link or send a trackback to this post
So I will take my stab at contributing to this PresbyMeme.
1. What is your earliest memory of being distinctly Presbyterian?
I was raised in a Presbyterian church in Centralia, WA - but other than VBS and the Christmas Eve candlelight service, I don’t have a lot of memories from those years. We eventually started going to a Nazarene church instead. However, the summer after my 8th grade year, I went to Soundview Camp in Longbranch, WA for M.A.D.D. (Music, Arts, Dance and Drama) Camp. Part of our activities during the week consisted of playing in a Handbell Choir. I was like, “What? Really? We’re at camp, and we’re playing handbells?” I suppose that’s when I first realized that Presbyterians were odd. And, in some way, I was one of them…
2. On what issue/question should the PC(USA) spend LESS energy and time?
This is a hard question. I’ve heard both conservatives and progressives say we need to spend less time and energy on “the gay issue” (obviously, both have different reasons for spending less time on it) - but I don’t know that I’m ready to say that. I think for those who are being denied a voice in the church, they would not say that it’s something we should spend less time on. Sure, it would be easy for me to say, “C’mon - let’s talk about things the church really should be talking about - mission, evangelism, poverty…” But, that’s easy for me to say - I can get ordained as soon as I find a job. There are others in the church who have been called to ministry - and they are being denied that opportunity. (I’ve totally gone over the 25 word limit)
So, if I had to actually answer the question, I’d say the PC(USA) should spend less time on discussing issues related to church property.
3. On what issue/question should the PC(USA) spend MORE energy and time?
I think it would serve the church well to discuss what the kingdom of God could look like in the world today. Sarah, my wife, often preaches about a “failure of imagination.” I think the church today experiences a failure of imagination, a failure of being able to think creatively of how to be in the world.
4. If you could have the PC(USA) focus on one passage of scripture for an entire year, what would it be?
I would have the PC(USA) focus on Matthew 22.34-40. Love God and love neighbor - not real profound, but very, very important.
5. If the PC(USA) were an animal what would it be and why?
I think the PC(USA) is a sloth. According to Wikipedia, “Sloths move only when necessary and even then very slowly.” That seems to about sum things up.
And I’ll tag the following folks: Matt, Bryant, Brian, BJ and Jessica.
Tags: PC(USA), PresbyMeme, Presbyterian
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Adam Walker Cleaveland: I am a 28 year old 
April 1st, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I like #5. Sounds like one, maybe two of my dogs… Well, and me sometimes ;-)
April 1st, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Adam - thanks for playing this uber-dorky meme. Sloth has come up over and over again ;-)
April 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
This is a hard question. I’ve heard both conservatives and progressives say we need to spend less time and energy on “the gay issue” (obviously, both have different reasons for spending less time on it) - but I don’t know that I’m ready to say that. I think for those who are being denied a voice in the church, they would not say that it’s something we should spend less time on. Sure, it would be easy for me to say, “C’mon - let’s talk about things the church really should be talking about - mission, evangelism, poverty…” But, that’s easy for me to say - I can get ordained as soon as I find a job. There are others in the church who have been called to ministry - and they are being denied that opportunity.
I’m confused. This assumes that you have to be ordained to have a voice in the church. That doesn’t seem very Presbyterian, much less Protestant….
April 1st, 2008 at 9:30 pm
No, it doesn’t seem Presbyterian or Reformed, but that doesn’t make it any less true.
If you don’t have, or aren’t eligible for, the ordination union card, you can’t even apply for probably 98% of the jobs out there, and even with the ones you can apply for, you have to overcome the presumption that there’s something wrong with you that’s preventing your ordination.
My call to the ministry is a call to the pulpit and I do feel that I have been denied that voice by the policies of the PC(USA) or at least of the presbytery where I was undercare for three years.
I’ve also learned in the last couple of years seeking a job in the church that nobody cares a whit what you did as a lay person. If you didn’t get paid for it, they’ll pat you on the head and say “that’s nice, but do you have any experience?”
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:47 am
You actually got tagged at least 3 times - I probably just didn’t do it correctly.
Interesting how material property is such a snare both on the individual level (a la rich young ruler) and the communal/corporate.
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 pm
I don’t want to be rude, but can someone tell me why Presbyterians seem to spend so much time defining themselves? I went to a Presbyterian college and assumed that all the “we do X because we’re Presbyterians” and the “Presbyterians are the greatest because of Y” stuff was just because we were all at an introspective age. Then I moved away, hunted around for a church, and ended up at in a Presbyterian congregation. Since then, I’ve heard so many clique-y Presbyterian jokes that I honestly have gotten frustrated with going to church. This congregation has mentioned Presbyterianism as “a religion,” has referred to the Apostle’s Creed — that the embodiment of Christian unity — as a Presbyterian practice, and even talks about “Presbyterians potlucks.” (To which I thought “Hello! Every church I’ve ever attended was big on potlucks, and most of them had much better food than this one!”) And don’t even get me started on the committee jokes.
Unless somebody can shed some light on why all this is important, my suggestion for #3 is to spend less time navel-gazing.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Errr, meant “#2.”
April 5th, 2008 at 11:42 am
I have been at a PCUSA church fulfilling my CPM requirement (and also employment), which is a dinosaur waiting for its comet. I got to preach early on and since then several other sermons, polls, questionaires, staff meetings have confirmed the same: we have to get this MT 22 Jesus style lovin down or we sputter on the fumes of a tank that was last filled when Kennedy was President.
I don’t exactly know why we have such great difficulty loving one another and especially loving our neighbor, but…we do. Perhaps it boils down to my new favorite phrase, “failure of imagination.”
Thanks for the blog, Adam. Years of enjoyment. I’m praying for your job search. Wish I had some leads.
April 5th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Katie,
I’m probably the last person to try and answer your question on why Presbys continually define ourselves. It probably begins with the idea that definitions are very important historically. We are a “by the book” people. That phrase has become divisive and has functionally lost its meaning, but that was not always so.
Today, when I hear what you are describing, I always have an Inigo Montoya moment, “I don’t think that means what you think it means.”
We have alot of thoughtful, inspiring, imaginative and theological statements that serve to keep the Reformation moving forward. If the last generation commits their belief to a confession or statement then the next can stand on their shoulders and see further, see and experience things the previous could not and didn’t. The Christology of the first page of our Book of Order will bring you to tears (literally). For one, it’s beautiful. For two, it’s clear, noone reads it anymore. The Brief Statement of Faith was written in ‘83 and would settle some arguments if anyone bothered to read that.
We are defined by centuries of following Christ, but it’s hard to tell what we’re following right now. If you would like, read a little of the Book of Order. Read a little of the Book of Confessions (I think both can be found at http://www.pcusa.org). After 30 minutes of reading, you will have more foundational definition of X and Y than the majority who are trying to define the definitions.
April 5th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Katie,
The more I’ve thought about your question the more I think that there’s no real theological answer.
I think it’s simply a case of it feels good to believe that your part of something distinct. And to increase that good feeling people will focus on the things that they think make them distinct, even when, objectively, it isn’t true.