Comments on: Josh Brown on the Kingdom of God http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/ Design, Ministry & Theology Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:00:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: David Hallgren http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52285 David Hallgren Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:49:45 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52285 I have seen many fundy's pendulum swing to swearing, drinking and rejecting church attendance. I liken it to showering off the restraints of oppressive institutions. But, it still reflects a self indulgent way of life that does not really speak to a kingdom ethic. The kingdom of God happens in this world and we stand near it when we can. Maybe the journey for finding freedom from religiosity necessitates full freedom and then a retreat back to some sort of subjection. This is most comfortably sought out in a community that is focused on our hurts, our needs or our ideas. But this self centered place is no closer to God's kingdom than a sham of the church instititution. I know what it is like to find freedom from a place of religious heaviness, but residing simply in our freedom is not nearly as free as subjecting our selves to kingdom awareness and, dare I say, obedience. I have seen many fundy’s pendulum swing to swearing, drinking and rejecting church attendance. I liken it to showering off the restraints of oppressive institutions. But, it still reflects a self indulgent way of life that does not really speak to a kingdom ethic. The kingdom of God happens in this world and we stand near it when we can. Maybe the journey for finding freedom from religiosity necessitates full freedom and then a retreat back to some sort of subjection. This is most comfortably sought out in a community that is focused on our hurts, our needs or our ideas. But this self centered place is no closer to God’s kingdom than a sham of the church instititution. I know what it is like to find freedom from a place of religious heaviness, but residing simply in our freedom is not nearly as free as subjecting our selves to kingdom awareness and, dare I say, obedience.

]]> By: Shekinah Glory http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52057 Shekinah Glory Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:57:07 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52057 Interesting post on the Kingdom of God. It left me with a few questions. Do you believe that your experiences with the church are normative or only amongst those who worship in your particular theological ethos? What exactly does, "living into" and "living out" the kingdom of God really mean? What is the Kingdom of God? There really are no examples or definitions of what you are currently doing besides philanthropy. So, going to another country on your honeymoon helped the spirit of truth move? Sounds just as reasonable as singing a praise chorus 100 times from a projector. Thanks for the post Interesting post on the Kingdom of God. It left me with a few questions. Do you believe that your experiences with the church are normative or only amongst those who worship in your particular theological ethos? What exactly does, “living into” and “living out” the kingdom of God really mean? What is the Kingdom of God? There really are no examples or definitions of what you are currently doing besides philanthropy. So, going to another country on your honeymoon helped the spirit of truth move? Sounds just as reasonable as singing a praise chorus 100 times from a projector.

Thanks for the post

]]> By: rndaniel http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52041 rndaniel Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:52:26 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52041 "i’m not sure why we let our government define marriage for us. if they’re in love and committed, what does a piece of paper mean? let them live together." Is this a serious attempt at "conversation," or are you (hopefully) speaking tongue-near-cheek? If you're trying to be ironic, I think the irony was lost in translation. If you're serious, I would urge you at least to try to give a little more meat to your rhetoric, because this sounds like a lot like a trying-to-be-rebellious-teenager. “i’m not sure why we let our government define marriage for us. if they’re in love and committed, what does a piece of paper mean? let them live together.”

Is this a serious attempt at “conversation,” or are you (hopefully) speaking tongue-near-cheek? If you’re trying to be ironic, I think the irony was lost in translation. If you’re serious, I would urge you at least to try to give a little more meat to your rhetoric, because this sounds like a lot like a trying-to-be-rebellious-teenager.

]]> By: Andy http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52037 Andy Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:35:54 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52037 "And any time power or control, organization or categories, get their hands on the gospel, it gets neutered." What does this statement even mean? What are these diabolical "categories" that turn good ol' Jesus lovin' folk into minions of the machine? *Any* organization *neuters* the gospel? Really? What about Acts 6, where the diaconate is...gasp...organized? Was that a neutering of the gospel, or rather an act with ensured that the gospel was extended to the Hellenist widows? God save us from sexy rhetoric. And from "categories"! “And any time power or control, organization or categories, get their hands on the gospel, it gets neutered.”

What does this statement even mean? What are these diabolical “categories” that turn good ol’ Jesus lovin’ folk into minions of the machine? *Any* organization *neuters* the gospel? Really? What about Acts 6, where the diaconate is…gasp…organized? Was that a neutering of the gospel, or rather an act with ensured that the gospel was extended to the Hellenist widows?

God save us from sexy rhetoric. And from “categories”!

]]> By: CJL http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52003 CJL Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:28:29 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-52003 I have to echo Tyler's sentiments on this one. While I am not certain that Bush has done the best job as the President I am reluctant to "mega-loathe" him as that violates everything that the Kingdom stands for. Jesus commands us to love those that are different than us; in fact He commands us to love our enemies. If our enemy is that which is antithetical to our religious, political, and social point of view than loving Bush is well within the author's capability. If not, than it indicative of the author's unwillingness to love another creature that was made in the eye's of God. While I disagree and abhor the viewpoints and sin of those who wish to see America and other free people destroyed, I still love Muslims all over the world. Bush is more my neighbor than they are so if I can love the Muslims who seek to kill me, loving Bush is not much harder. But I also question anyone who intentionally removes themselves from the corporate body of worship. Again, the scriptures command us to not forsake the assembly of believers (Heb. 10:25) which was an exhortation to be molded by others towards love and good deeds. This lack of corporate sharing of lives with fellow believers is one of the reasons why many are unable to love their neighbors. Personally, I believe this "mega-loathing" of a man whom one has never met stems out of a resistance to be around fellow believers. If we cannot even love those who are in the "empire" than of course we are not going to love those who are in positions of power or in depravity. I would encourage the author of this post to reconnect with the Kingdom of God in a meaningful way by connecting back into the body of believers. It is one thing to rant about the Kingdom of God, but it is quite another to separate yourself from it. Blessings, CJL I have to echo Tyler’s sentiments on this one. While I am not certain that Bush has done the best job as the President I am reluctant to “mega-loathe” him as that violates everything that the Kingdom stands for. Jesus commands us to love those that are different than us; in fact He commands us to love our enemies. If our enemy is that which is antithetical to our religious, political, and social point of view than loving Bush is well within the author’s capability. If not, than it indicative of the author’s unwillingness to love another creature that was made in the eye’s of God.

While I disagree and abhor the viewpoints and sin of those who wish to see America and other free people destroyed, I still love Muslims all over the world. Bush is more my neighbor than they are so if I can love the Muslims who seek to kill me, loving Bush is not much harder.

But I also question anyone who intentionally removes themselves from the corporate body of worship. Again, the scriptures command us to not forsake the assembly of believers (Heb. 10:25) which was an exhortation to be molded by others towards love and good deeds. This lack of corporate sharing of lives with fellow believers is one of the reasons why many are unable to love their neighbors. Personally, I believe this “mega-loathing” of a man whom one has never met stems out of a resistance to be around fellow believers. If we cannot even love those who are in the “empire” than of course we are not going to love those who are in positions of power or in depravity.

I would encourage the author of this post to reconnect with the Kingdom of God in a meaningful way by connecting back into the body of believers. It is one thing to rant about the Kingdom of God, but it is quite another to separate yourself from it.

Blessings,

CJL

]]> By: carol howard merritt http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51985 carol howard merritt Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:25:53 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51985 When I look at pictures from Abu Ghraib, when I think about the devastation in Iraq, when I read that we're debating whether waterboarding is torture or not, I have to say, I loathe him. I don't know him personally, but do I need to? Perhaps I'm not taking Jesus' words seriously enough... but then again, Jesus overturned tables for less than this... When I look at pictures from Abu Ghraib, when I think about the devastation in Iraq, when I read that we’re debating whether waterboarding is torture or not, I have to say, I loathe him. I don’t know him personally, but do I need to? Perhaps I’m not taking Jesus’ words seriously enough… but then again, Jesus overturned tables for less than this…

]]> By: Tyler http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51975 Tyler Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:42:47 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51975 Let me get this straight - you "mega-loathe" a person you've never even met and you think you're taking Jesus' words seriously? (and as far as I can tell, you actually never mentioned any of Jesus' words in this post on the Kingdom). Look, I think just as much as the next guy that Bush is a strutting, swaggering, cocky conservative and probably the worst President you've ever elected, but let's be honest, he's still just as human as everyone else, right? Let me get this straight – you “mega-loathe” a person you’ve never even met and you think you’re taking Jesus’ words seriously? (and as far as I can tell, you actually never mentioned any of Jesus’ words in this post on the Kingdom). Look, I think just as much as the next guy that Bush is a strutting, swaggering, cocky conservative and probably the worst President you’ve ever elected, but let’s be honest, he’s still just as human as everyone else, right?

]]> By: Will http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51872 Will Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:02:40 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51872 I think that we are getting too caught up in the "is it a sin, is it not a sin" issue ... "the gospel of sin management" as Dallas Willard would call it. That wasn't the point of his post. It was to say that the Kingdom of God reaches beyond the walls of our "perfect" churches ... maybe even that it exists more fully in places where people are real and honest about their crap. Sure, maybe you aren't sleeping with your significant other outside of marriage, but you've got a secret addiction to pornography that no one knows about, or you really hate democrats, or something in your life that keeps you from really experiencing the life that God has for you. At least these people are willing to engage in conversation with other Christians and commit to learning from one another. Personally, I think that the church is God's plan for the world and believe that the people who see its flaws, more than anyone else, need to stay in it or they will never be addressed. But that doesn't mean that it has to look like it does now. I thought it was a good post, though it did seem like swear words were thrown in just to say "hey look! I'm a Christian who swears!" Not definitely a bad thing ... just an observation. I think that we are getting too caught up in the “is it a sin, is it not a sin” issue … “the gospel of sin management” as Dallas Willard would call it. That wasn’t the point of his post. It was to say that the Kingdom of God reaches beyond the walls of our “perfect” churches … maybe even that it exists more fully in places where people are real and honest about their crap. Sure, maybe you aren’t sleeping with your significant other outside of marriage, but you’ve got a secret addiction to pornography that no one knows about, or you really hate democrats, or something in your life that keeps you from really experiencing the life that God has for you. At least these people are willing to engage in conversation with other Christians and commit to learning from one another. Personally, I think that the church is God’s plan for the world and believe that the people who see its flaws, more than anyone else, need to stay in it or they will never be addressed. But that doesn’t mean that it has to look like it does now. I thought it was a good post, though it did seem like swear words were thrown in just to say “hey look! I’m a Christian who swears!” Not definitely a bad thing … just an observation.

]]> By: josh http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51865 josh Mon, 11 Feb 2008 05:05:00 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51865 i'm not sure why we let our government define marriage for us. if they're in love and committed, what does a piece of paper mean? let them live together. i’m not sure why we let our government define marriage for us. if they’re in love and committed, what does a piece of paper mean? let them live together.

]]> By: Jerry http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51793 Jerry Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:00:33 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51793 hmm....i'm not sure i would encourage living together before marriage. that's a tough one. hmm….i’m not sure i would encourage living together before marriage. that’s a tough one.

]]> By: -kp- http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51703 -kp- Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:10:36 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51703 "Then <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=16&verse=18&version=31&context=verse" rel="nofollow">Jesus</a> messed up my life." “Then Jesus messed up my life.”

]]> By: tribalchurch http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51689 tribalchurch Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:48:24 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51689 Nice post. It reminds me of my experience. I was a fundy, and then one day I realized that one of the people who inspired me most in my life was my best friend... who was gay. Nice post. It reminds me of my experience. I was a fundy, and then one day I realized that one of the people who inspired me most in my life was my best friend… who was gay.

]]> By: rndaniel http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51680 rndaniel Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:20:12 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51680 Second verse, same as the first. Second verse, same as the first.

]]> By: Guest Blogging | IAmJoshBrown http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51677 Guest Blogging | IAmJoshBrown Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:37:56 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51677 [...] Got a guess blog over at Adam’s site. Check it out. [...] [...] Got a guess blog over at Adam’s site. Check it out. [...]

]]> By: Mark Cork http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51666 Mark Cork Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:34:51 +0000 http://pomomusings.com/2008/02/07/josh-brown-on-the-kingdom-of-god/#comment-51666 Josh -- you're not alone in your journey. What you wrote about sounds so much like many of the experiences my wife and I have had over the years. Within the "establishment" it seems I've been swimming upstream most of my life. Outside those confines there is real freedom and a sense of God's peace. Blessings! Josh — you’re not alone in your journey. What you wrote about sounds so much like many of the experiences my wife and I have had over the years. Within the “establishment” it seems I’ve been swimming upstream most of my life. Outside those confines there is real freedom and a sense of God’s peace.

Blessings!

]]>