From Bob Jones University website’s description of Residence Life:
- Posters of movie and music stars and fashion models are not permitted. The subjects of personal photos should not exhibit immodesty or inappropriate physical contact.
- Music must be compatible with the University’s music standards: New Age, jazz, rock, and country music is not permitted. Contemporary Christian music is not permitted (e.g., Michael W. Smith, Stephen Curtis Chapman, WOW Worship, and so forth).
- Televisions, DVD/videotape players and headphones are not permitted in the residence halls; computer DVD players may not be used to view movies.
- You may not possess or play computer and video games rated T, M, A, or E10, or having elements of blood and gore, sensual or demonic themes, or featuring suggestive dress, bad language, or rock music.
- Due to space considerations, appliances such as mini-refrigerators and microwaves are not permitted in residence hall rooms. A refrigerator and microwaves are provided in each residence hall.
- Residence hall students may not watch videos above a G rating when visiting homes in town and may not attend movie theaters.
- All weapons must be turned in for storage. Trigger locks are required for pistols. Fireworks are not permitted on campus.
Interesting that you can bring your pistols – but not your WOW Worship albums. Hmmm. Also check out the Dress Code.
Dude, this is amazing – thanks for the morning laugh.
I’d enroll just for the fun of pushing the boundaries and writing about it…if it weren’t so expensive.
A friend of mine gave me a copy of Al Franken’s “Lies” book awhile back (I don’t care for his “blue Ann Coulter” approach, but he’s a funny guy). There’s a chapter in which he “infiltrates” Bob Jones with one of his interns who’s considering applying. At one point, they ask about the school’s (now-dropped) ban on interracial dating: “If Tiger Woods went here, who could he date?” Hilarity ensued.
HA,
This was great. All that and for 15,000+ a year. I am more shocked people would be willing to pay that kind of money for such guidelines. I bet its a mass of fun there on a sat night. Well watching the Jungle book in a turtleneck sweater 3 feet away from physical contact to another person. AWESOME where do I sign?
Thank God they brought up the refrigerator issue. One would hate to have a circuit breaker blow in the same room that all the guns are kept safe :-)
This is exactly the kind of nonsense that has launched the emerging church. In Jan. of this year I was talking to Brian McLaren after his speaking engagement at Christ Presbyterian (PCUSA) in Edina, MN and he talked about growing up Plymouth Bretheren (a lot like Bob Jones stuff). He explained his upbringing being like a sling shot effect because they pull you so far in a rigid and legalistic direction that you shoot out in the other way with great force.
One other thing. Do you think posters of Kirk Cameron are okay at Bob Jones?
does anyone know of a (sympathetic) ethnography of students at bob jones? or a good journalistic account? … because honestly, i just have such a hard time imagining why someone would submit to this sort of regime, as an adult, in america. i find that the whole concept pushes up against the limits of both my imaginative and my compassionate capacities in a way i find a bit unsettling. what are they thinking? what are they feeling? is this, even for some students, a time of spiritual growth and maturation? … and goodness, what is it like to be a faculty member there? … and if there’s not a book like this out there, can someone (not me) please make this their dissertation topic? i’ll buy the book — i promise!
Hey Adam, I was a student at Pensacola Christian College from 1993 – 1997. The rules were like this, and still are, as far as I know. It was very difficult to go through, but I had gone through it all my life. My dad is a pastor of an independant, fundamental baptist church, and so this was the lifestyle we lived growing up. I can’t say anything about Bob Jones, but I can say this, the only reason a substantial amount of people (5,000) attend PCC is because the cost is like $6,000 a year. For me it was 5. I drove off campus in May of 1997 with a college degree, absolutely no debt, no clue what the popular movies and music had been for the last 4 years, and a strong commitment to never ever attend a church that restricted people in this way. In the end, I wish I would have done it different, but all I can do is learn from this history of mine.
And the rules get a lot worse than even the ones you’ve posted.
Well, they got one thing right: No contemporary Christian music! I wonder if reading aloud accounts of Jesus turning the tables or the crucification is allowed…seems awfully close to a violent film.
I looked on the “what to bring” list and it didn’t mention the Bible. I’m guessing they are required to have memorized it before enrollment.
It amazes me that Bob Jones claims to be preparing people to save the world when they won’t even let them experience the world.
Marty – I grew up in Pensacola, and as one “outside the gates” of PCC, I had always been told that the school was not accredited. Is that true? That’s what never made sense to me…why someone would want to pay the money and submit to such rigorous guidelines for a degree that was, essentially, not worth anything. I have never been able to talk to anyone from the school about it, so I was hoping you could shed a little light. Thanks!
When I was a student at Oral Roberts University, whenever we complained about having to cut our hair short, taking out our earrings, wearing a tie to class, and the mandatory midnight curfew, our RA would say, “Hey, you could always go to Bob Jones.”
To Letitia — I didn’t go to Bob Jones, but ORU has a lot in common with it, and I knew a few people who actually left ORU to go to Bob Jones (and Wheaton, and Pensacola). Here’s where my sympathy is: These schools are often horribly managed by fundamentalist and narrow-minded administrators (or televangelists), BUT, they are full of young men and women who have deep, sincere, and passionate love for God. The students are, for the most part, good people.
I never locked my dorm room door a single day I spent as an ORU student, and never felt a need to. There is an air of honesty and earnestness among the student body, and even though it is often coupled with fundamentalist dogma (which reflects the home environment in which most of the students were raised) there is a genuine and widespread desire to follow Jesus.
My sophomore year, I transferred to McMurray University — a methodist school in Texas. After one semester, I transferred right back to ORU. I still didn’t agree with 98% of the theology, rules, or administration at ORU, but I missed my friends: some of the truest disciples of Christ I’ve ever known. I’m confident that in time, as they seek God, they will grow and learn to be more tolerant of non-fundamentalists. I hope I can say the same for us.
Shows real chutzpah to pick on BJU, Adam.
how could u take these legalistic rules?
When I was trying to figure out which Christian school I wanted to go to after a year at a junior college, and Bob Jones sprung up on my radar just because of how great that name is. So I knew right away that I wanted a tshirt but much to my disapointment their marketing campaign did not go for the whole name but a much simpler “BJU” design. Which for such a conservative school I love the choice of marketing the BJ initials.
I knew a few people who actually left ORU to go to Bob Jones (and Wheaton, and Pensacola).
Not really sure how Wheaton fits in with the other three…
Bridget,
You should look at the What To Bring list again and look under books because the first book listed is the Bible.
I am glad that you brought this into mention Adam and I hope you are doing so not to make fun of them but to bring interest to the fact that some of these rules are very extreme. I am an RA at a Nazarene Univerisity and sometimes I find it hard to get my guys to follow some of the rules here and none of them are anywhere near the rules the BJU have.
-Troy
What really made me laugh is they don’t allow contemporary christian music. Smith is one of the most innoffensive performers out there. I met a couple of guys who were going to school there when I worked in a video game store. They loved games!
I tried to go on Bob Jones campus a couple years (wearing black dress pants) to see their huge Christian art collection, but was asked to leave the grounds. No pants, even for female guests.
Wow. How on earth are we all supposed to be the church together? I feel like I couldn’t have less in common with a flea.
while i disagree with most of what bju stands for, i have to question this post. they are making a choice, which, regardless of what others think about it, remains their choice. the narrowmindedness that seems apparent in the list of restrictions is, i think, not that much different than saying those who choose to live by such standards are crazies.
i can easily imagine those students asking how they are supposed to go to church with those faith-diluted, pop-culture driven liberals who read more barth than the bible.
live and let live.
I can’t say I blame them for choosing to go to a school like this. After reading Prothero’s “Religious Literacy” a lot of our ignorance about basics of our religious heritage and biblical knowledge are lacking because we felt the experience was more important than knowledge.
Jan,
They actually asked you to leave?!
Hyles-Anderson in Indiana has BJU beat. Check out the page titled “maybe you wouldn’t like…” Even though I disagree, I admire the conviction.
http://www.hylesanderson.com/about_us/maybe_you_wouldnt_like
MAYBE YOU WOULDN’T LIKE…
OUR DRESS CODE
Many think our dress code is too strict. Skirts above the knees are not allowed. Men must wear neckties to class and must have short haircuts. Young ladies may not wear shorts or slacks.
OUR OLD-FASHIONED DISCIPLINE
Young ladies are not allowed to go off campus unchaperoned. Young men and young ladies may not date alone in cars. Absolutely no hand holding or other intimacies are allowed between the sexes. There are date nights with bus transportation and adequate chaperones provided by the college. Student insubordination is absolutely forbidden.
OUR INTENSE EVANGELISTIC ATMOSPHERE
All faculty, staff, and students are required to go soul winning weekly. Students participate in the evangelistic ministry of the First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana, which builds its ministry around personal soul winning. An average of over 10,000 new converts were baptized each year for the past several years.
OUR FUNDAMENTALIST EMPHASIS
We are fundamentalists and use the term proudly. We believe in a literal Hell which has fire and brimstone and a literal Heaven with streets of gold. We stand for the King James Bible as the only Bible and the local New Testament church as the only true church. We believe in redemption through the blood of Christ, salvation by grace through faith alone, and the premillennial second coming of Jesus Christ.
OUR SEPARATIST POSITION
Absolutely no drinking, smoking, or dancing is allowed. No student is allowed to attend Hollywood movies, play cards, or participate in other questionable amusements. We do not fellowship with liberals, but instead take a strict separatist stand from the world and apostasy.
OUR EMPHASIS ON CULTURE
We believe in students learning and practicing propriety. We oppose the paganistic, barbaric humanism that prevails on many campuses. We believe in refinement, dignity, courtesy, proper manners, and Christian grace.
OUR EMPHASIS ON THE PRACTICAL
We blend the finest of scholarship with the best practical teaching possible. We teach not only what to do but how to do it. Preacher boys are taught how to start churches; how to build buildings; how to borrow money from lending institutions; how to raise money and adopt a budget; and how to organize, operate, and perpetuate a New Testament church.
Wow. At Hyles-Anderson, women can major in “Marriage and Motherhood.” Yeesh. I’m all for marriage. And for motherhood. But as a college major? A friend of mine blogged a few weeks ago about a similar program at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I repeat: Yeesh.
Hahaha… some much for Jesus hanging out with prostitutes and tax collectors.
Something about this statement really bothers me, I’m not sure if its the pressure its implying on a decision with school or that SATAN doesnt want me to go to a christian college….
“Why is choosing a college perhaps the second most important decision you will ever make? Because students most often choose their vocation and their mate at college.
Unfortunately, Satan doesn’t want you to choose a Christian college. He wants to control your future. He often convinces young people to believe the following myths about Christian colleges.”
I first learned of Bob Jones University in Junior High. You see, Bob Jones has a publishing company and they sell text books to Christian schools. My classmates liked to cover the letters in the title of the school to make it say otherwise. I have remember BJU ever since.
Such emphasis on outward “truth” and “regiment” makes me think of the Shawshank Redemption or Donnie Darko. It would not surprise me if something shady happens at BJU soon. All in all its pretty sad that this place exists, I mean like I am legitimately bummed reading their website. It saddens me.
Yes, I think that Bob Jones is very strict, and I disagree with many of the things they stand for, but at least they are trying to keep their student’s minds focused on the Lord while they are at college. Your college years are very important. There are so many oppurtunities for you to be pulled away from the Lord, and pulled down into sin. But if you can make it through 4 years of study at Bob Jones you can leave and go listen to your wow cds and go the the movie theaters and play your video games. But isn’t it worth it? Isn’t it worth it to give all of those things up for just 4 years of intensive study of your chosen major and for the Study Of God’s Word? Isn’t going to a Christian College that lets you give your life totally over to the Lord for 4 years worth it? Isn’t God worth more than playing games and watching dvds and wearing certain clothes? I think He’s worth it, even if the rules are strict and some disagreeable and probably wrong. It’s still worth it to give up all these things for the chance to fully focus on GOD for ONLY 4 years of your life.
College is a time to experience life and gain the knowledge that comes with getting your degree. Your studies are very important and your relationship with God is vital, but this is ludicrous. If you keep your grades up and get involved with a campus ministry, there is no real reason not to explore the world around you. I studied abroad two years and graduated Magna Cum Laude. I went to parties, saw movies, traveled, hung out with the opposite sex (gasp!) and I didn’t turn away from God. It made me understand even more that hurt people HURT people. I wouldn’t trade my college experience for anything.
Jan, There is absolutely no rule against guests wearing pants at BJU. If you were asked to leave then the person was not officially representing the campus. Furthermore, the Museum and Gallery is public access and no one reasonably dressed will be denied access.
BJU is a choice….something that seems lost on the so many of you that post your comments. Check out their academics, their graduates job placements. They always have produced a quality product. There will always be unhappy people that attend, but for the most part the rest are there for a christian education-obviously something that is lost in most secular universities. If you wish to criticize go there first, know what you are talking about and then post your thoughts-at least you will be better informed about who they are.
I find many of these comments very interesting. I am a BJ grad who actually enjoyed my years at Bob Jones University. I always felt safe on campus, there were no obvious tempatations to later regret. Would I do it again having gone through a Bachelor’s and Master’s program there? Absolutely! The teaching is quality; they prepare you to be the best at your particular craft. What you do with it is your choice. My views didn’t always match those of the administration (ie interracial dating) but that doesn’t mean I couldn’t agree with them on other things. I was there for the best education I could get not because of the rules. The friends I made there have been the best that I could find and we still stay in touch after 20 years. While attending you obey the rules, that’s what I chose to do. While at home with my parents I obeyed the rules, I expect my children to do the same. Without discipline there is chaos. Look at the public school system-no discipline or respect therefore chaos and violence. In the army there are rules- how come no one is bashing them for the discipline they require of the entrants? Will I send my kids to BJ? Maybe, maybe not we’ll see as the time approaches. I would prefer a Christian school over secular as the values are so very different and my kids don’t need to make the mistakes I’ve seen others regret having made (wild parties, drinking, and basically debauched living) That’s my view on the situation. BTW I go back to campus all the time wearing pants-never had a problem. I ended up marrying a white man(I am black or African-Canadian or whatever they are calling us these days) So just because you choose to go to a school like BJ doesn’t necessarily dictate the rest of your life for you. Thanks for listening.
Carol, thank you for your post! I graduated from BJU in 1991. Sometimes they call it “boot camp” for Christians. Just like the military, you aren’t expected to follow every rule when you graduate–you are a changed person though. My background before BJU was not like the typical student. I had attended public school, pretty much went to church on most Sun mornings where I didn’t listen to the pastor, and grew up in a neglected, hostile home (adopted-but didn’t want me-what was that about?) where I worked incredibly hard long hours on the farm, was depressed AND anorexic. At 16, I made a leap of faith and asked Jesus into my heart. It’s a long story, but I did end up at BJU. My parents were horrified (why did they care? I was paying for everything). At first, I didn’t trust anybody and looked for deception and hypocrisy in everything. I couldn’t find any holes because GOD is in control of that school. I eventually relaxed and started enjoying myself. The rules ARE reasonable and not arbitrary. The education was EXCELLENT! The teachers were loving and approachable. Each of them CARED about ME. It amazed me to no end to be surrounded by thousands of other kids my age who loved the Lord. My favorite part of the day was chapel. I learned so much! Also, the food was pretty good–I finally started gaining weight and getting healthy (mentally, physically and spiritually). I met my sweet husband there (we got married before our senior year). For those who find the rules and ideas ridiculous, I want you to understand that it is about the whole training process. They don’t just educate your mind–they educate and mold ALL of you. I grew up in a home without rules. Those years were filled with chaos, sexual abuse and harassment, pregnancy at a young age and so much regret. My years from the time I stepped onto the BJU campus until now have been amazing. God is in control of ME and my life now. I have joy and peace and contentment. My training has helped me—and I am grateful for it!
P.S. BTW-it’s not a prison! Some freshman have been forced to go there by their parents-but overall 98%+ of the students are there by CHOICE. There must be a reason!
It never ceases to amaze me how intolerant the intolerant can be of the alleged “intolerance” of another. As another said, “Live and let live!” If someone disagrees with your belief system, then is scoffing, ridicule and maligning the only method of coping available to you? Your own intolerance condemns you. The openminded can exhibit such closedmindedness. And the manufacture of lies by some in order to slander BJU is overwhelming. What is your purpose in visiting this site? I don’t understand the purpose of a site on Theology (the study and pursuit of the knowledge of God) hosting a page with such a theme having the tags: fundamentalism, humor. The irony brings tears to my eyes; not smiles.
A man once told me that when his kids came to him asking to do something and saying Mr. D___ is letting J____ do it. He would reply, “Well, I’m sure Mr. D____ has given this careful thought and is doing what he thinks is best. But J____’s last name is not G_____ . The moral of the story is have a creed and live by your creed. But if you don’t live by that creed your life will be unfortunate chaos. People often like the product of a household that lives by a creed, but they don’t like the process necessary to produce the product.
Live by your creed. Let others live by their creed. There’s no need to be mean-spirited.
Hi – I attended a “religious” school my first year of college and was completely changed. Coming from a small, conservative family, all that I had ever heard was the “compassion of christ (intentionally not capitalized)”. After my first year, I never wanted to hear anything religious again. For those of you considering attending a “religious” university or college – please reconsider. Are you going to shut yourself off from the world for the rest of you life? Likely not. But that’s exactly what religious colleges do to you and expect you to do. Religion, and I mean ALL religion, is a joke. Christianity is a farse. It’s made up and today is the longest running cult in recorded human history. Open your eyes and your mind and start thinking for you own. Base your ideas on what you’ve determined through your own life experience and not some 2000 year old book that’s been translated countless times. Don’t let the pastors, preachers, disciples, evangelists, right-wingers, or prayer groups tell you how your life should be lived – just go out and live it. Religion is specifically designed to be self-fulfilling – if you question it, it calls you godless; if you mess up, it says others should call you out on it. If the world ends tomorrow, it won’t be because of the “rapture” – it will be because everyone was lobbying for a spot of the religious food chain. Muslims say they are superior, constantly offending the christians who believe they are. When does it end? You’ll never be able to live with one another because you’ll always be trying to convert one another to your side. Religion is for the gullible because the gullible fall for anything because they don’t know how to assess things for themselves. Religion- and religious schools – will likely be the downfall of mankind. No, my experience at my religious school wasn’t terrible – I made good friends. But it was after about 1 month there that I realized what was really going on: brainwashing. To those of you who attended BJU or PCC or any other brainwashing facility, I hope you don’t need all that money your spending on your education, because you’ll never see it again. And when you get out of school, you’ll never be able to recoup it because your education is worthless. Who is really going to hire you? The schools hope that you’ll find the world dull – that’s what they’ve brainwashed you to believe. They hope once you find the world dull that you’ll come back and teach the “word” to other idiots and perpetuate your meaningless existence. Whoopty freaking doo! Why don’t we all just sit around and worship and cast out deamons – that sounds like fun. Oh, but you’re not allowed to have fun. Get laid once in a while, will ya.
I am going to lay out some parallels between BJU and the church who was much like BJU in its viewpoints. Matter of fact, the Pastor is a graduate of BJU.
My family and I were members (members all of about maybe a year because we moved down to Fredericksburg) of a church in Fairfax, VA (Independant Fundamental Baptist) who strongly encouraged their academy students to take a look at attending BJU, PCC or TN Temple. If someone considered going to Cedarville or Liberty, they were discouraged from doing so. Any student or church member considered going to a state run school (VT, UVA, George Mason etc…) and you were practically ostracized. I never was apart of their academy (public school product) and actually glad that I didn’t attend. Public school students who went to the church like I did were treated differently than the other kids who went to the academy and church. I never went because the tuition was not cost effective for my parents to pay on the budget they had. The stringent rules almost appear as if it was something you would find from basic military training in that church. They were particullarly harder on the youth in the church. It reflected what BJU required of its students.
Back in the early spring of 1991 (junior year) I went on a “college for a weekend trip” with academy students (took a chartered bus) to BJU and folks at BJU were actually great folks to talk to and associate with… To an extent. What I took exception to was some students being very judgemental. Even had someone (I believe it was a student) chide me because I didn’t have my utensils laid in an orderly fashion across the front of the plate (upon turn-in for cleaning) when I had lunch in their cafeteria. I had them orderly in the tray, but that was simply unacceptable. I wanted to say “I am visiting as a potential student and was not aware of this,” but just said, “okay thanks” and pressed on.
I went on a college for a weekend trip during my senior year to Liberty. I met a student who transferred out of BJU and went to Liberty. I was curious since I knew a little about BJU and asked him why he transferred. He said they were considering removing him as a student because they thought he was “lusting.” He continued, “They were investigating the incident and gathering their facts” I responded in disbelief, “What?!?!” He said, “Oh yeah… I made some glances at a girl I was interested in and a professor saw me, then turned me in.” I then told this guy, “I thought if you violated the 6 inch rule that was grounds for something like that.” He said, “No, not in my case.” “When they talked to me lmore later about it and what they were considering doing (possible explusion from the school), I had thought about it long and hard and decided I have had enough of the nonsense.” “I told them to save their time for other things because I was transferring out.” He concluded, “they granted my transfer request and I have not regetted it since.” Take that FWIW…
Upon graduating from HS, I joined the Air Force instead of taking the college route (taking courses while on Active Duty however). If I had the option of going to whatever school I so chose to go, I wouldn’t go to BJU or schools like it. Probably would have gone to Cedarville or Liberty. BJU and schools like it have standards that they feel is best and that is fine for them. Legalistic? Yes… What I was disappointed with concerning folks who go there, churches who have burdening standards like these is it seems that image comes before their relationship with Christ. It appears to be secondary when the emphasis is so heavily leaned towards restrictive rules and unrealistic conditions. Call it Pharisaism
if you will for modern day. Many folks who staunchly followed this view were “plastic” and judgemental of folks who did not agree with their view of what scripture laid out. I had some students and a youth minister from the church in Fairfax act very suspicious of me at times because I viewed things differently than they did when interpreting scripture. I even dated a gal from this church (lasted 8 months) and her family thought she could do better in who she dated. Did not fit her family’s standard of the ideal Christian Boyfriend. I was treated at times like a little kid with questions an adult would pose to a 8 year old who was being talked down to. I decided after 8 months I had enough and we mutually split. Her mother stated one time that she thought Charles Stanley (one of the better and responsible teleevangelists) was a good pastor. She went of to say she just couldn’t believe he was a Southern Baptist. I bit my tongue and walked off after I heard that. Eliteism is one of a few trademarks I had with in my experience with people like this.
The overview from my experience was burdening. From what I know, the apostle Paul wrote (not verbatim mind you) in Galatians that legalism is a yoke of bondage that not only will profit nothing, but it causes us to fall from grace. Like many people I have come across who came out of churches that followed this system in their youth, only to (sadly) delve (sometimes never recovering) into living as if they were of the world.
Go to BJU and you will get a good degree with a strong potential of being hired. However, going there and abiding by the stringent standards for 4 years is a little bit much. In other words choose wisely…
RE: …I admire the conviction.
I don’t.
Their “sincerity” is over-rated.
It’s about control, plain and simple.
I went to BJU in 1973 for one year. I found many of the rules just plain stupid. The edicts of hair length, side burns, facial hair etc. had much more to do with Viet Nam and Abbie Hoffmann than Biblical truth. Prior to the 60′s hair length never came up. The same could be said of the music policy. Much of the music of that time was anti war and/or anti American. These are political viewpoints having little to do with morality. Also the argument was made against the music itself, i.e. the beat, has its origins in the old “Negro music” prejudice of the 50′s
But the real indicator of BJU’s base of faith came with the inter-racial dating policy change. They were adamant that they would not bow the knee to Baal; God would see them through-didn’t he own the cattle on a thousand hills? Like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, they would not submit. So . . . when push came to shove and they did not prevail? They folded. Unlike Abraham, Rahab and the others, their faith was not shown by their works.
Bob Jones has some good points but their continued insistence on elementary rules of don’t taste, don’t touch, don’t handle, which have the appearance of wisdom but are of no use against fleshly indulgence, shows immaturity.
I went to BJU for 1 1/2 years, then I switched over to BBC in Clarks Summit. I was raised by 2 parents, one who attended BJU in the early 60′s. It was ingrained in us that we would attend at least 1 year of BJU. Out of 5 of us, only one graduated, and 2 never even went.
I found that admist all of their “stupid” rules there is a genuine love…a lot like the love a mother has for a young child. BJU takes you and puts you into an infancy like state that requires you to give all of your thoughts, hope and dreams over to them as they try to sort through them and only give back what is truly pleasing to the Lord according to 1611 KJV standards. After 4 years of attending, they hope to have retrained your mind and hopefully your soul to be a “SOLD OUT SOUL WINNING CHRISTIAN”.
It is very difficult for someone who had NO christian values while be brought up to attend, and moderately difficult for those who had some christian training (Christian school, Church every sunday), but I found that the kids who did the best where the kids whose parents took the BJU standards of living and incorporated them into their daily lives and every aspect of their homes. (Preacher/ Missionary kids) * Oh let me say that the only other people that did very well were the Timothy Students – check their web site)
Think of attending BJU as the military…without the Boot Camp training…although LIGHTS ARE ON AT 7AM and OFF at 11PM! (Without exception!) and no (backsliding) R&R for 4 years!
As for me, attending a Christian college did make a difference, and yes, I met my husband at BJU, but if the walk is not consistant, then no matter where you attend, or for how many years, it is only a “regular college” with some strict rules that you will probably lose your walking priviledges for when you break – that is another story!
~Ruth Mc Attended 9/88-1/90
Mary Gaston 103
Was it “genuine love” that kept blacks out until 1974? Was Bob Jones I expressing ’1611 KJV standards” when he said that he would sooner vote for a “nigger” than a Catholic when Al Smith was the candidate?. If a Christian has his sideburns past the middle of the ear is he less a “sold out soul winning Christian”?
How did Jesus say men would know that we were his disciples? Neckties? Hair length? What style of music we listened to? No but that we love one another.
You are correct however in stating that Bob Jones puts you in an “infancy like state.” Unfortunately it leaves you there
Ed T
Attended 8/72-5/73
Smith 335
Chi Delta Theta
Stage crew / Mel Stratton stage Mngr
Went to BJ for undergrad. loved it. 4 kids, great marriage, great life, great job. Love BJU, hope my kids go there. Most here talking from ignorance or prideful independence that doesn’t want any authority. The rules were good, don’t agree with all, got an excellent education, and by the way – many major positions are held by BJ grads. I’m balanced, happy, discerning, well-rounded, and non-judgmental. Yale, Harvard, etc. also maintained racial dating standards nearly into the 1980′s. BJ was wrong…they changed…done deal. Guess what? I went there and I consistently share the love of Christ with and in the world…just like they taught me. Viva la BJ !
Tobe W. said
“Went to BJ for undergrad. loved it. 4 kids, great marriage, great life, great job. Love BJU, hope my kids go there.”
Very pleased to hear you think this way and I don’t fault you at all. Very encouraged to hear your testimony on this aspect.
“Most here talking from ignorance or prideful independence that doesn’t want any authority.”
Prideful independence that doesn’t want authority… Interesting argument, but entirely untrue. There is maybe one comment out of the others on this topic that I see that is completely ignorant and refuses to accept authority and that is from Bernard.
Let’s see how this jives if you are referring to my thread as one you are pointing out. I must have CHOSE to come to faith in Christ and obey Him because I didn’t want authority. I must have joined the military and gave an oath in CHOOSING to follow the lawful orders of my leadership because I didn’t want authority. I must have been a pleasing son to my parents because I did my best in CHOOSING to obey them because they wanted their best for me and because God wanted it that way. This must show I must have despised authority. You have to be kidding me my friend!
Forgive me for my “ignorance”, but I base my opinion on the experiences I had with my visit to BJU and the BJU standards of behavior that permeated in the church we were members of for just one year. I was treated as an outsider in the youth department because I was a public school product. You were looked at as if something was wrong with you because you didn’t choose to attend their academy at the church (which was not cheap and the reason I didn’t go btw). Your attitude in some of your comments is synonymous with people who think that the fundamentalist movement in churches should be rule. Anything else is an abomination or contrary to what God truly wanted. At least this was what had exuded from loyal church populace in word and deed. I am glad to not be around that type of mentality anymore. It was more a burden than true freedom in Jesus Christ.
Tobe W. honestly, should a true Christian base their faith in Christ on rules and guidelines, or on a relationship with Him that drives a spiritual hunger to obey and please Him via direction through the Holy Spirit? Should they live their lives based on what the church or school hierarchy of a place like BJU, PCC or Tenn Temple tells them they should do, or listen to that still small voice and God’s infallible Word. Too many are falling into the unscriptural trap that legalism brings with it. It is divisive and a tool Satan has used to divide the body of Christ and he’s been quite effective at this task with the lie legalism brings.
I chose to wear conservative khaki shorts and t-shirt in public because it’s hot here today, rather than khaki pants and a polo. Does that make God look at me any less as His child? I dated girls where it was just the two of us, (went to a wholesome movie in a theater) and got them home in a matter of minutes after the movie (because mom and dad of the ladies I dated requested it) in years past before I was married to my precious wife and mother of my three precious kids. Does that make God look at me any less as His child? I listen to Christian artists such as Newsboys, Michael Card, Keith Green, Michael W. Smith etc… Does listening to their music make God look at me any less as His child? Absolutely and emphatically, “NO!” Their messages edify the soul. So where is the issue? There isn’t one, but the legalist thinks there is because it simply does not fit in the box they think God is in, especially from their viewpoint of how things should be.
“The rules were good, don’t agree with all, got an excellent education,”
The education there is excellent, there is no refuting this. I will tell you that rules are not always bad. There are standards set in place to avoid pitfalls in life and God’s standards He lays out very clearly that we should always abide by in obedience to Him.
“and by the way – many major positions are held by BJ grads. I’m balanced, happy, discerning, well-rounded, and NON-JUDGMENTAL. Yale, Harvard, etc. also maintained racial dating standards nearly into the 1980’s. BJ was wrong…they changed…done deal. Guess what? I went there and I consistently share the love of Christ with and in the world…just like they taught me. Viva la BJ !”
I agree with everything you said and applaud you for spreading the love of Christ. However, not everyone who goes to BJU or as the people I dealt with at the church who had many who were attenders and alumnus of BJU, PCC or Tennessee Temple that were not non-judgmental. It was something that permeated their very fabric if you were not like-minded as they were. It saddens me to still see many of them having this mentality of “spiritual superiority.” It also breaks the heart of Christ to have believers who think this way and have a judgmental/critical spirit of others.
The fundamentalists need to wake up, legalism is doing nothing more than keeping them in bondage.
Do they teach logic at BJU? Toby W said, “I’m . . .non-judgmental.” and then goes on to say that most of us are victims of our own “ignorance or prideful independence.” Perhaps he is being humorous. If the rules are “good” then why doesn’t he agree with all of them?
I’d like to see documentation of the racial dating policies Of Yale, Harvard etc. If they did have them I’m thinking they had been long ignored like many blue laws.
We have two children: one at BJ and the other at Cedarville. The one at BJ was focused on her major and has graduated with a superb work ethic and a desire to minister to others in her field. The rules have taught her discipline. Her teachers were amazing at imparting their skills and knowledge to her. She learned many books of the Bible, served weekly in a local ministry, and knew of only one or two non-virgins. She still dresses modestly, likes pretty music, and chooses friends who work hard. The other daughter went to Cedarville and learned liberal theology, postmodernism, all the latest rap and alternative rock groups and New Age performers, knew many kids who were not virgins and who slept around at Cedarville, did not hear the salvation message at chapel, and was taught by Bible teachers that all things are permissible. The world is everywhere at Cedarville: in its preaching, in its dress code, in its radio station, in its plays, in its bookstore, in its dorms, and at its parties where kids dress immodestly and dance to rap music. The kids can go to any church they want, even non-Christian if they want. No one checks up on anything, ever. Our daughter says “It’s a joke” because “no one got kicked out for anything.” If you immerse yourself with the world’s things, you “become” like it eventually. We had no idea when we sent her there that it was this way. I have seen both schools and I think the discipline of BJ is why they produce graduates that are able to EXCEL in their chosen major. They stand out. Which is preferable? It depends on your own child’s personality. I know that Stephen Jones, the new head of BJ, is a LOT different than his father Bob Jones or his grandfather. He is balanced and preaches a LOT differently; not a judgmental bone in his body. He is doing away with lots of the “stupid” rules slowly, while maintaining the discipline that produces great graduates. So things are improving there immensely. Most of the kids I know who graduated there are excelling in their chosen professions and love God. May God bless each person in their decision. It is a hard one, which deserves much prayer before committing to a college.
I hope the daughter who went to Cedarville is doing well. One thing I did like about Bob Jones when I was there was the work ethic. Homework was due on time with no excuses. Almost all of my teachers were excellent. My complaint was always with those superficial rules that seemed to have more to do with preserving some picture of the American ideal youth rather than Godliness. While proscriptions against immodest dress are biblical, the same cannot be said for hair length, beards, sideburns or even (though I hate them) body piercings. The music policy was the same. They would use the worst acid rock to illustrate their point while unable to show why or how this might apply to Simon and Garfunkle or Peter Paul and Mary.
The other black mark they needs to expunged is race. Not only did they have that inter-racial dating policy in place, but when I was there in the early ’70s, George Wallace and Lester Maddox were on the honorary board. What message did that send? Though he has moderated his message in the last decades, Ian Paisley was on that board too.
If Stephen Jones is moving away from these things, (Wallace and Maddox are dead anyways) good for him. Bob Jones does stand for Biblical truth which I applaud. They will have to work hard for they will never get fair coverage in the press.
This is my Bob Jones story: I will be a freshman there this fall, in fact i leave in 10 days. A year ago, I would have said Bob Jones, are u kidding me? I will NEVER go there!!! I know lots of people that have gone there and loved it and there are the people who hated it! and then i went down there. I went with an idea of how legalistic it was and how suffocated I would be. What I saw were young people striving to focus on what is important. Bob Jones’ rules create an atmosphere where you can focus on ur walk with Christ and school. They take away the distractions. As this will be my third year in college, I am looking forward toward this year with more anticipation than the previous two years. I can put aside my violent movies, my xbox, and my heavy medal, to focus on God and be diligent in my studies. That is worth my money.
Congratulations Amber on your mature outlook on life and your experiences. I hope others get as much out of the BJU experience as you have. I would have loved to have had the experience of going there and think that rules are there to guide us and we all need guidance and focus in our lives. We also need to focus on Christ and having a smart apperance and healthy dose of discipline focuses our minds to serve CHrist which after all is our purpose for living. Enjoy your time there and you’ll remember the experience for the rest of your life.
23These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence. Col 2:23
“… and having a smart apperance and healthy dose of discipline focuses our minds to serve CHrist.”
I notice that none of the apologists for BJU ever bother to explain just how not having sideburns past the middle of the ear or a beard leads to a fuller understanding of the Christian walk. The Pharisees had all sorts of rules and discipline but their hearts were far from God. Are you a better Christian if your hair doesn’t touch the back of your collar? (if you are male that is) Rules for rule’s sake serve only to make you feel good and holy about yourself. Did that poor man in the book of James have a “smart appearance”?
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. Col 2:8
this is funny stuff:
http://thehistorybluff.com/2008/08/25/bob-jones-university-underground-art-gallery/
Hi Ed, Some interesting thoughts there which are quite thought provoking but surely you can’t deny that smartness in appearance generally equals smartness in mind? I don’t think having hair touching the collar or having lengthy sideburns necessarily makes you a better Christian but I do think that people who make the effort on small things such as keeping your hair neat, short and conservative in style, not letting your sideburns extend too far past the top of your ear, wearing a tie every day and generally dressing in a decent and respectable manner generally make the effort on the more important things too – such as finding the time and way to pray and welcome Chrst into our lives. Clean in appearance and clean in mind. Dressing to a set standard or guideline also takes the time and hassle out of thinking about such detail for many people and gives them more time to concentrate on the real issues – serving Christ.
You have got to be goofing on me” . . .smartness in appearance generally equals smartness in mind?.” Just for starters take a look at any photo of Albert Einstein.
But that is beside the point. The “standard” that is set was not one to promote Christian virtue but a political viewpoint. When I attended BJU in ’72-’73 hair length was a political statement. They weren’t looking to “welcoming Christ into our lives” but rather to promoting a true blue American standard. Nothing wrong with that but call it what it is and don’t parade it as some Christian virtue.They were concerned with someone thinking you might be against the Viet Nam war (which I wasn’t by the way) What does a tie have to do with anything? One could, I suppose, make an argument for avoiding ties as they have become a symbol of conspicuous consumption. Does the fact that I not only let my sideburns grow long but indeed have a beard mean that I avoid prayer and my Bible. I think not. It is man, not God that looks on the outward appearance. Never forget that some of the smartest dressed people in this world are in Hollywood and Washington.
Did you attend BJU by the way?
Ed, You raise some strong points and you obviously have some strong and considered and articulate arguments and as you have personal experience of BJU, I bow to your knowledge and experience but overall, our views are different so I shall respect yours and not argue against them as I hope you respect mine.
I didn’t attend BJU but boy, I wish I had. At that age, my life was a little messy, unguided and I was on a wrong path. I lacked focus, and guidelines in my life then and I wish I had had some authority or institute like BJU to help me through that time. It is sucha crucial time in our lives and I know I would have benefited from it.
MikeyNikey
As to “bowing” see thou doest it not. :) My feelings about BJU are mixed just as George Wallace said he would feel about seeing his daughter come home at 5:00 am with a Gideon Bible under her arm. I’m not a BJU hater. I applaud their scriptural standards, particularly in the recent past as they have become a target of the homosexuals. The creed which we repeated in chapel is a good, solid, succinct doctrinal statement. But the other rules such as only classical, semi-classical and serious religious music had no real basis other than some older person’s taste in music. While I would agree that some music should be avoided . . . It was Christianity based on “this is how we were raised.” Some of that thinking also had roots in the old fear of “negro music” I suspect.
But for all that, as evil doers wax worse and worse and people are wanting to have their ears tickled, Christians should find the things they have in common and let some things go and avoid being a stumbling block. But we can not compromise on Biblical truth.
My sister graduated from Bob Jones and is working on her masters there. Before she went she was a fun person to be around. Now she is the opposite. Now she is constantly judging my mother and I, and shows no love that is required of Christians. I’m not afraid to burn bridges with her, and I hope Bob Jones burns with her.
If you “hope that “Bob Jones burns with her”, are you showing the “love that is required of Christians”? For what is she judging you? Tell the whole story.
‘I applaud their scriptural standards, particularly in the recent past as they have become a target of the homosexuals.”
THE Homosexuals are people. Don’t announce them as if they are any different just because they date the same sex.
I am actually an agnostic homosexual male who went to BJU last year as a day student so I could get enough credits to transfer to another college while still being a Voice Performance major. They accepted me with a 2.46 GPA and no ACT/SAT just because of my testimony.
I am now at Winthrop University and couldn’t be happier :)
I will say though that I don’t regret going last year, yeah I had to wear a tie every morning till 12:00 but as an in town/day student I didn’t have to follow any strict rules or whatnot, I pretty much went to class everyday and every now and then I had to go to vespers every now and then, whats wrong with that?
The teachers there are great and really do care about the students, even I could tell everyone there actually believed they were meant to be there, including the faculty.
They do need to be a tad bit more selective apparently though :P I was under the radar the whole time with a boyfriend and I went to the movies like all the time! lol.
I don’t get all the judgment although, it’s really not as bad as the website makes it out to be. It’s a beautiful campus, sweet people, and a wonderful faculty of dedicated teachers. No I would not go back because I don’t believe the same way they do but as I said before I don’t regret it.
So I am currently a seminary student, I listen to Norwegian death metal, wear a pentagram (star of hope) around my neck, have long hair, a long goatee, and I have a girlfriend who I kiss everyday. I love Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is wholly true. I am a Great Commission Believer. Am I any less a Christian than the average student at BJU? If you say yes… God save your soul from judging another person.
“Am I any less a Christian . . .?” You can’t be more or less of a Christian, you either are one or you are not. As for judging other people, how else do you maintain purity in the church? Were the Corinthians told to judge the man that had his father’s wife? Were Annanias and his wife judged? As to your pentagram, do you care what message that might send? What if a Christian were to wear a swastika? Would you judge them? Question their Christianity? All things are lawful but not all things edify.
If one is a Christian or not… why does it really matter what our appearance (the strict dress code as opposed to my all black apparel) when John the Baptist and other prophets wore rags? The judging the Bible speaks about were sinful acts… not how we present ourselves to the world. Also the pentagram is mistaken too often. It was originally the “star of hope” or symbolizing the five pains of Christ. Wearing a cross around the neck should be questioned more. Why do we wear a pagan symbol for inhumane execution? That is what the cross was originally. It just so happened that Jesus died on it. The meaning of the cross has lost its significance in today’s culture. I have learned not to question anyone’s Christianity without meeting a person first to understand their train of thought. The Church is caught up too much on first impressions. And that is what Bob Jones is taking too seriously.
I don’t know if the Church is caught up too much on first impressions. Some churches are. In my earlier posts I stated that BJU was promoting some kind of clean cut American image (short hair, neckties etc) rather than a biblical standard. I don’t insist on it; I usually wear jeans and a sweatshirt when I go to church. But our appearance can send a message. What if you were to dress as a skinhead? Is that a message you would want to send? Sometimes a first impression is all you get to make.
You raise an interesting question about the cross. Only because we are so far removed from the event is probably why we make use of the cross. Had Christ been executed in the 20th century I doubt that we would wear little electric chairs or nooses around our necks. But symbols and their meanings change. Try wearing a swastika and explaining that it was once an American Indian symbol. It makes a very bad first impression.
Just happened by to read this page in the conversation going on here. I just wanted to tell you about Pentagram. From what i’ve seen and heard, it’s not just a symbol of Wicca or Satan worship like some people think. Like Kuehn stated, it represents the five pains of Christ. Now, what people think when they see you does have an impact, i’m not saying it doesn’t, and many will not ask you about it, they will judge. But for those few who do ask “Why would a CHRISTIAN where a pentagram?” that actually could be a way to lead those people, especailly people who believe in Wicca or something of that nature who know at least what they believe it symbolizes…that could be an opportunity to witness to someone. I’m a Christian, and believe me, i had quite a few friends who were Wicca in high school. They would be the first to be interested if i invited them to church with me on sunday. I will admit, to most people, the pentagram is bad. My boyfriend and i were having this conversation today, he went to BJU, but to some people, getting to know their thoughts and religion, help you witness to them. Both of you have a very clear and strong believe, and neither is wrong…but each of you will beable to bring different types of people to Christ because of your differences. God can use anything to bring others closer to him, and i mean Anything! Remember that. :-)
I take issue with many people stating that going to Bob Jones is a choice. As a 23 year old, I can attest that such things are not always options.
For one, an 18 year old brought up in a fundamentalist environment and being pressured to go to BJU their whole lives can hardly be said to have made a “choice”. It cannot properly be called a choice when one knows no other way.
Secondly, long gone are the days when one can simply graduate high school and hope to get a halfway decent job. I understand that many of you older adults did it and pulled yourselves up by your bootstraps, but my generation doesn’t have nearly as many opportunities to do things like that. Fast food might be easier, but it doesn’t pay nearly as much as factory work. Even if we can get out on our own, we’re lucky and will likely be living in poverty for quite a while. I was given a choice when I graduated high school: go to a 4 year college or be kicked out into the street. Which do you think I chose? Many of these young people may be facing a similar situation, so don’t assume that all of these kids have a real choice.
Spent four of the best years of my life at Bob Jones. It isa definitely not for everybody. The rules are listed. If you can't deal with them–don't go. And if you don't go, don't complain.
Same here, spent the best 4 years at BJU and made the greatest friends that I could ask for. I knew the rules before I went and yes I didn’t agree with all of them but still went. So like you said if you don’t agree don’t go.
I went to Bob Jones University for 3 years. I am not a fundamentalist today as I got away from the IFB. However, even though I do not care much for the IFB, I simply cannot bash BJU. I had a great time while there. I will carry those pleasant memories with me. I loved my teachers as they had a good heart. If I ever return to South Carolina then I will have to take my wife and kid for a campus tour. I have no ill feelings for my old school. My only real complaint was how I dated 3 separated girls there that ALL found their husband to be while dating me. I thought I was cursed :-P