Five Things Feminism Has Done for Me
October 23, 2006
Kristin (whose new site I designed) tagged me. So…here goes:
Five Things Feminism Has Done for Me
- It has opened up my view of God: It’s pretty safe to say that growing up and through most of college, I would have thought it heresy to refer to God as anything but "HE" (probably all caps too). While of course there are still great debates over this, and over the use of inclusive or gender-neutral language…reading feminist theologians and having conversations with feminist seminarians has only served to enlarge my view of God.
- It has enabled me to marry a brilliant and independent woman who constantly challenges me (whether I like it or not!) and enjoys putting together IKEA furniture more than I do (and might even be better at it). I married a woman who had more tools than I did; now, whether this says more about her feminism or my masculinity is probably open for debate. But feminism has certainly made my marriage more interesting.
- It has caused me to think more critically about my masculinity - and what it means for me to be a man in the 21st century. I believe it should (and hopefully does to some degree already) look much different than it did in the 80’s, the 60’s and certainly the 50’s. As society and culture continues to change, and as the gender roles continue to become more fluid and organic, men need to be continually aware of their masculinity and how it supports, encourages, rubs up against, conflicts with, challenges and is challenged by feminism.
- It has caused me to have to be a better cook - because, contrary to notions I had of marriage when I was a little kid…women DON’T do all of the cooking anymore…
- It has caused me to become more aware of the suffering and oppression of women - which has led me into becoming more aware of the suffering and oppression of so many others in our society (those with physical and mental handicaps, brothers and sisters of the LGBT community, those stuck in poverty, the homeless, anyone whose skin isn’t white…there are too many to mention).
What has feminism done for you?
Posted in General
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:58 am
Well, this is related to your second point, but I would say feminism has made me a better person. My wife, like yours, challenges, admonishes, encourages, confronts and edifies me. Though very painful at times, I hear what this wise woman says, and it forces me to change… or to be who I truly am. thus spoke churchpundit!
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:05 am
Feminism has encouraged me to think of humanity as a whole in gender neutral terms instead of masculine only terms and views.
Feminism has also caused me on more than one occassion to get yelled at or slapped in the face for something I thought I was being nice about. For example I don’t know how many times I have held a door open for a lady and got told off for doing that. And all I was trying to do was be nice. Now of course I have had the exact opposite happen for those who protest feminism. I had one girl sit in the car for I don’t know how long as the rest of the crowd (8 of us) went on into Walmart. We were like where she at? We go back and find out she was mad because nobody opened the door for her to get out of the car. Like whatever. She was such an Ice Queen.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:07 am
Adam, you sound quite enlightened; however, our present culture is intent on blurring the lines of what it means to be masculine or feminine and, despite your marital bliss, the effects of this trend have been negative. As usual, as in many of the views you express at pomomusings, culture supersedes scripture. Does it matter that there is a biblical perspective on our roles as men and women? Is feminism consistent with what scripture says about such roles? I am not saying that scripture speaks directly to cooking or building furniture and I am not implying that any one era encapsulated the definition of masculine and feminine roles; however, feminism, as an ideology, has been a tremendously destructive to western culture. The ways is which feminism has negatively impacted our culture (including the church) are too numerous to list here, but a book that addresses the results of this movement is: The Feminist Mistake: The Radical Impact of Feminism on Church and Culture by Mary A. Kassian.
Another excellent book on the subject(free in PDF format) can be found at Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood - http://www.cbmw.org/rbmw/. Also numerous related articles and resources can be found at this site.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:06 pm
slomo writes:
“I am not saying that scripture speaks directly to cooking or building furniture and I am not implying that any one era encapsulated the definition of masculine and feminine roles.”
all well and good. but the problem is that the scriptures often do offer fairly mundane prescriptions of what it means to be male and female. see, for example, paul’s insistence that long hair on a man is “unnatural”, whereas a woman should keep her head covered in worship. this natural and unnatural language is the same that Paul uses to talk about hetero/homosexual relationships, but that’s another ball of wax. The point is, there are not many conservative Christians who adhere to the long hair/short hair teachings, because they seem trivial and a little misguided.
So, pursuing a ‘biblical’ understanding of what it means to be male and female may be a bit more complicated that some would have us think. we as a culture are always supplying our own interpretations to what is a God-inspired - but often confusing - scriptural text.
The feminists own up to this subjectivity. I wish that conservatives would do the same…or hustle out to the barber shop.
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:51 pm
A wonderful list, Adam! Thanks for offering it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Another excellent book on the subject(free in PDF format) can be found at Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood …
I gotta’ say that I have read that book, and it may be the most ridiculous piece of so-called scholarship that I have read.
It is terrible! It even goes as far to say that women should not work out because it may cause men to stumble.
But then again, I am a feminist. :)
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:14 pm
I’d be lying if I wer to say I thought it had done anything for me. Some of the work for their rights has been positive, others not. You can say that about any group of people who have fought for equality. Some take it too a good conclusion where their rights are established without stepping on others. Then there are whose fight for rights does trample on others.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:41 pm
What about Neo-femminism? Everything you talked about seems to be based on the traditional view of feminism. How about those who are seeking to redefine feminism based on their biblical views? Has this challenged you? (I speak particularly about what is going on at some emergent churches- such as Mars Hill- in which being feminist is encouraged through a biblical perspective of owning one’s feminine nature- rather than trying to disown what culture has claimed a feminine nature to be)
If God has created the truly feminine, why not be challenged through His scriptures?
Also, just because something is challenging, does not mean it is true. Something to think about for folks on both sides of the aisle.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:16 pm
My husband and myself are feminists, egalitarian, Christians and David is very much a Man and I am very much a feminine woman. My guess would be that just because Adam cooks and his wife has tools and puts together Ikea furniture, does not mean they have blurred the lines between the feminine and masculine. I don’t hear Adam saying that God did not intend to create MAN and WOMAN. It would benefit the conversation not to put words in the man’s mouth.
Adam, I thank you for your bold role in the Body of Christ as an advocate for feminism. Fight the good fight my brother.
October 24th, 2006 at 1:49 am
Adam, I thank you for your bold role in the Body of Christ as an advocate for feminism. Fight the good fight my brother.
Again, this is the problem with today’s Christian’s. They don’t think. They simply assume that whatever they think is “fenimism” is automatically the theological equivalent of true feminist ontology. Not so, however…
Have you ever stopped and thought about feminism in a way that is not “liberal”? Have you ever thought about a feminist ontology that is conservative and biblical in nature? I doubt it…other than where you grew up?
Adam…I await your response…What about neo-feminism?
October 24th, 2006 at 2:18 am
“however, feminism, as an ideology, has been a tremendously destructive to western culture”
That’s a silly statement…ideologies emerge from and shape culture, an ideology cannot be easily separated from culture. As a young, white, tertiary-educated, professional woman, let me tell you that feminism has definitely not been “tremendously destructive” for me, for my husband-to-be, or anyone we know. And believe me, I’m a very girly girl, and he’s a very blokey man. :D
October 24th, 2006 at 10:35 am
Have you ever thought about a feminist ontology that is conservative
Sure…but I am not conservative, and neither is Adam, so I am not sure why that would really matter in the context of this discussion.
As for “conservative and Biblical”? They are not the same thing.
October 24th, 2006 at 10:43 am
“feminism has definitely not been tremendously destructive for me, for my husband-to-be, or anyone we know”
Abortion on demand has been tremendously destructive to the millions killed by legalized abortion. A vocal segment of the culture that endorses feminist ideology has advocated for this “right”; however, I concede that you probably never knew the faceless infants who have been killed. Maybe your tertiary should also be educated about the impact of feminism on:
-divorce rates (real people are hurt by broken families)
- declining morals (adultery, promiscuity)
- Blurring gender roles and promoting homosexuality
“I gotta’ say that I have read that book, and it may be the most ridiculous piece of so-called scholarship that I have read.”
Are you dismissing all of the contributors? Just one? Your biases are apparent. Watch out Dave, it almost sounds like there is a standard for critiquing biblical scholarship. I wonder who defines the standard….
October 24th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
blaming feminism for broken families, abortion, adultery, and homosexuality is like blaming the abolition of slavery for the Rodney King riots and gang violence and high drop out rates among african american students. just because the advancement of rights of a marginalized group of people preceeded negative events, you can not generalize that the movement is at fault or suggest that we should reconsider the merits of the movement.
take divorce for example: true, as women have gained legal equality in marriage there may have been higher divorce rates but the correlation does not prove a causal relationship. while on the other hand, before advancements were made for women, it was legal for men to rape and beat their wives, women couldn’t own their own property or take custody of their children to protect them, there weren’t even systems in place for women to be able to protect themselves.
if women are leaving a marriage because their husband is a danger to themself or their children, you can hardly blame the wife (or feminism) for the breakup of the family. it was not easier access to divorce that caused the destruction of the marriage, it was the violent husband.
as far as RBMW, i too have read the book and though i am familiar with the traditionalist view of gender, i was astonished at some of the assertions that were made in that book. ridiculous suggestions such as in marriage, the husband should be the one to drive the car and that women should be nurses and not doctors, or actors but not directors. there is no biblical basis given for most of the real life application but rather “tradition” (ie. the way things were about 50 years ago, but not necessarily before) is given way more weight than it deserves.
for a balanced view, the book should be read (if at all) in tandem with Discovering Biblical Equality: Complementarity without Hierarchy. DBE does a great job of discussing the biblical egalitarian view while affirming the authority of scripture and the beauty of complementarity in creation between men and women and all of humanity. Give it a read.
October 24th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
myste - as always, well said.
October 24th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
I am always amazed by the liberal bullshit you write….
October 24th, 2006 at 4:24 pm
Patmos, don’t hold back, tell us how you really feel.
October 24th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Some interesting quotes by the leaders feminist movement thatgive me that warm fuzzy feeling:
“The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist” (National NOW Times, January, 1988).
“Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage” (feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
In response to a question concerning China’s policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, “I consider the Chinese government’s policy among the most intelligent in the world” (Gary Bauer, “Abetting Coercion in China,” The Washington Times, Oct. 10, 1989).
“Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole…patriarch!” (Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine).
“Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women…. We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men…. All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft” (from “The Declaration of Feminism,” November, 1971).
“By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God.” (Gloria Steinem, editor of MS magazine).
“Let’s forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement, solace, and inspiration from real women…. Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist ’salvation’ of this world.” (Annie Laurie Gaylor, “Feminist Salvation,” The Humanist, p. 37, July/August 1988.
“In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them” (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school’s Center for Research on Woman).
“Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession… The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn’t be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that.” (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.
“The most merciful thing a large family can to do one of its infant members is to kill it.” (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in “Women and the New Race,” p. 67).
“We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men.” — Elizabeth Cady Stanton
From ‘A feminist Dictionary; ed. Kramarae and Triechler, Pandora Press, 1985:
MALE:…represents a variant of or deviation from the category of female. The first males were mutants…the male sex represents a degeneration and deformity of the female.
MAN:…an obsolete life form… an ordinary creature who needs to be watched…a contradictory baby-man…
October 24th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
slomo - Do I need to do tit for tat and quote all the jack asses throughout the history and present of Christianity? Do I need to quote the saints and the patriarchs? The leaders and the laymen? Because if you are trying to dismiss feminism as a meaningful and viable movement and cause because there have been some rediculous comments made in the name of feminism (not all of which I subscribe to by the by), you better be prepared to sweep that broom across all ideologies.
October 24th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
Putting the tit for tat aside for a moment…
The real gift of feminism is the way in which it allows to you to take on a perspective that is different from your own that gives us a broader picture of who God is and the attributes of his/her character. When God is typically understood from a male perspective, we use metaphors and concepts associated with masculinity. By broading that perspective, we can include feminine metaphors and concepts as well. This broadens the way in which we relate to God by understanding God as both father and mother. Luckily, gendered persons aren’t confined to traits of one sex or another, but can explore a different gendered perspective in their own personalities, which hopefully contributes to their own personal and spiritual development
October 26th, 2006 at 10:16 am
I hate sweeping generalizations. I define myself as a Christian…..do I agree with what what every Christian has said throughout the ages?…..of course not! Same applies to feminism.
October 29th, 2006 at 1:17 am
Is it wrong to say “nothing, because I’m a white male”?
October 30th, 2006 at 11:35 pm
Slomo…I can’t add anything that hasn’t already been said, but I wanted to say it again. ;)
Being a feminist and being pro-life are not incompatible.
Feminists have said some stupid things. So have men. That doesn’t mean I write off half the world’s population.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:37 pm
Oh, and Slomo…you really must read Germaine Greer, I’m sure you’ll like her. Us Aussies are incredibly proud of her!!
December 11th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
I really get weary of all this. (Just a comment from a never married female of 45 and christian for 27 years.)I suspect I speak for most females.. (I hope)
Women are commanded to reverence their husbands.During the dating period a single woman needs to ask herself if she can do this with her intended. It’s really very relative and subjective. As a single I don’t reverence anybody’s husband.That’s their wife’s job and if they struggle its proably because they messed up courtship! What is masculine to me might not be the same for another woman. It’s all about respect and leadership potential based on character and fear of God,maturity in Christ,compatability in callings etc.
April 11th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
feminists are inherently chauvenistic. the very fact that most people, post 1980, if asked for a definition of chauvenism will reply that it has to do with overtly masculine mannerisms (the aussie ‘bloke’ is one of the world’s best examples of a male chauvenist) is really testament to the zealots within the movement. this generation is perhaps affected like no other; we’re still raised to be very much occupied with the mannerisms associated with the chivalry of old, but are then told the exact opposite within a heavily female orientated education system, that this is the wrong way to act towards women. and bec, not all aussies are that proud of greer, though i cannot blame your for voicing it as such. the ability to speak for yourself and represent it as the words of others and of the majority is the bread and butter of the modern feminist movement. in fairness, greer, like many of the old school feminists, helped to end some of the gender equalities prevalent in society. but some of those gender equalities cannot conceivably end. there are biological inequalities on both sides, and the corporeal feminist argument that gender roles are a cultural construct is inadequate to change iological fact.
but all that is really just a reply to replies. to repsond to the original post, i instead pose a question: was it really feminism that did all that for you? by now, most of you have no doubt labelled me a white, male chauvenist. whatever. my point is that you could really have accomplished any of the things on that list without any belief in feminism. feminism helped you to realise that women don’t do all the cooking? a simple reality check and a cook book would have sufficed. same goes for point 5, and i’m guessing that the reason you didn’t know women didn’t do all the cooking was because of your ignorance. the only way that a white male can be seen as progressive in today’s feminist atmosphere is if they are affeminate and self loathing. feminism isn’t pro-female or pro equality, it’s anti-male.