Slice of Laodicea Slander Strikes Again: Pt II
September 29, 2006
Ingrid Schlueter highlighted my blog yesterday in her "On Hookahs, Emergents and Booze Aplenty" article. I think when I first started to get "picked on" by Ingrid and the Slice of Laocidea, I was a little offended. Upset. Why are they going after me? Then, the more it happened, I began to find it humorous - kind of an honor I guess. I mean, if I can share blog-space with Amy Grant…I figure I’m in good company. I’ve listened to some of Ingrid’s radio program before…wrote about it here. So I decided to give her a listen today. I figured since she’s obviously reading my blog, I should do my homework as well and listen to a little SliceCast.
I’m so glad that I did -because now my friends, do I have a treat for you. I listened to Ingrid talk about "A Call for Discipleship and Christian Music that Tells the Truth." It’s only about 17 minutes so I highly encourage you to give it a listen. It’s really something.
She is ridiculous. And to prove it, I have a short clip from the podcast for you to listen to. Listen to it here. In the span of about 2 minutes, Ingrid effectively calls African-American Gospel music "trash" and "circus music." Please listen to it now. After hearing a really good Gospel Choir sing, she makes the following comment:
"What you have is them screaming, "hol-eh hol-eh hol-eh." That’s not the way that the cherubim and seraphim cry out "Holy Holy Holy, Lord God…" That’s an awesome experience. This is not awesome - this is trash. I call this fanny-shaking music. If it makes you want to get up and writhe - that’s a pretty good indication that the flesh is involved."
Are you kidding me? Did she really say that? Does that sound racist at all to anyone else? There are people who really listen to this?
With radio shows like this, hopefully Ingrid will just continually alienate herself. Hopefully people will be able to see through this and perhaps think to themselves that there must be better uses of a Christian’s time than to publicly trash another culture’s praise music.
This is just one more reason that Ingrid’s rebuke of me means nothing.
Posted in Rants
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
September 29th, 2006 at 9:11 am
Yeah - wow.
I’m gonna go and register http://www.Ingrid-Schlueter-is-a-racist.com before someone beats me to it.
September 29th, 2006 at 10:05 am
OK Adam. Now I’m pissed! Who in the hell does this women think she is!?!?!?!?!? I’ve followed your blog for the past year or two. I am a 37 year old emergent pastor in a mainline denomination [UMC]. I recently stumpled upon her piece of trash blog when I was doing some research on Don Miller after having really enjoyed Blue Like Jazz. I even argued a bit with her, well her right hand man really Rev. Ken [something like that] on her post Emergent Hollow men. It’s a losing battle.
Yes it does scare the hell out of me that we have these neonazi obviously racist] Christian fundamentalists that are sharpening their nails in order to crucify anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
Now, about the post they refer to. I too was one who thought that perhaps you might have gone juuuust a weeeee bit over the edge with the hooka [i didn't even know that it was I had to look it up] post. I wasn’t sure what you were trying to accomplish. I too like a good glass of wine and a Killian’s every now and then and find nothing inherently wrong with that.
But, while you and I wouldn’t see eye to eye on everything [see my reply in your post about crying babies in movies theaters ;)] I think you have some good things to say.
So here’s a salute from one fellow emergent hollow man to another. Keep your chin up!
Grace & Peace,
Eric
September 29th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Adam, you and I are on several different pages (and I mention that more for the SofL folks who read this blog than for you). I listened to the clip and thought, “Wow, what an obvious racist” (complete with a mocking of how they were singing “holy”), and then I read you’re comment about it being racist. Wow…
September 29th, 2006 at 10:41 am
SofL should be renamed the cult of ingrid, cause isn’t this really what she’s trying to create and produce–a following that listens to only what she has to say and how she interprets scripture and culture?
i’ve gone round and round with these folks before and have been crucified from time to time (even for things that i didn’t say). they seek to discredit anyone and everyone that doesn’t agree with them and they seek to steal, kill and destroy… hmmm… sounds a little familiar (in your best church lady voice) “could it be SATAN!” ;)
September 29th, 2006 at 11:15 am
minus the rascist stuff I think the rebuke was correct. However, I think it is great to point out the rascist stuff because it was. Eric, you were totally over the top. To lump all of those people as rascist seems so ridiculous. Non-Emergents in the majority aren’t rascist. At the same time I’m sure there are rascist in every camp. It seems ludicrous to lump an entire group as being rascist. It is stereotypical, an overgeneralization and just wrong.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:17 am
laodicia? I personally believe calling anything as not being sin when actually it is a Laodicia. So it seems the use of this term is a double standard. :)
September 29th, 2006 at 11:48 am
Adam,
To be perfectly honest, I do not often find myself in agreement with the views that you express on your blog, but this is one instance when I completely concur with your evaluation of the content of Ingrid Schlueter’s commentary on the sound-bite of African-American Gospel Music. For the life of me, I cannot understand what it is that she hates so much about a musical style that seems intent on offering genuine praise and worship to the living God. She should take her racist attitudes and throw them in the gutter where they belong.
September 29th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
Wow I thought the blog posts where bad enough, these casts are taking this junk even farther.
September 29th, 2006 at 1:50 pm
I was surprised to learn that the cherubim and seraphim sang in English.
September 29th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
Adam -
Recently (last spring) I tried to engage a rabid right-winger in dialogue, and was called a “troll” and stalker and was banned. Dialogue isn’t their strong suit; they just want to bask in the glow of being right.
As to the picture, I was a bit surprised, but I thought, “What the hell, there’s nothing in the Bible against smoking a little pot, anyway,” so don’t feel you need to explain. God’s love is not dependent upon whether or not we smoke weed, flavored tobacco, or dried prunes! You are yourself and need offer no explanation to anyone for how you live your life of faith.
i have never heard of this group or site you refer to, but at least now I know of one less web-site to visit.
Peace and God’s love
September 29th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Laodicea? The last of the seven churches to be addressed in Rev. 2-3? The one of which is addressed:
“I am about to spit you out of my mouth. for you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing.’ You do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked” (Rev. 3:16b-17). “Be earnest, therefore, and repent” (Rev. 3:19b).
Hmmm…. Sure hope they do repent.
September 29th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Geoffrey,
Thanks for the comment. It should be mentioned that I wasn’t smoking pot - but flavored tobacco…
September 29th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
I don’t think you should listen to Ingrid’s rebuke either, but as a friend listen to mine. The problem is, bro, that you and Ingrid are peas in a pod: she continues to “alienate herself” (in your words) from reasonable discussion through outrageous radio shows; you’re alienating yourself with hookah pictures. Somewhere along the way you took on the role of “Emergent Shock Jock” — and granted, folks like Howard Stern (the original shock jock) have a following. But I don’t think you really want to be the voice for the kinds of freaks and geeks that are attracted to “shock jock” commentary. I think you have the potential for a much more important role in the Church and the emergent movement in particular. So give up the shock and awe schtick, let Ingrid go, and let’s talk about something that matters to the future of the people who call themselves follows of Jesus.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Just a quickie, Adam. I caught that, thus the mention of flavored tobacco.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
can’t we all just get along?
it’s sad that the christianity ingrid representing on her site is hurtful, and it’s sad that it is also the primary understanding of christianity informing people in our churches.
so what do we do now?
September 29th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
The Bible talaks about sorcery and the word pharmicea refers to hallucinatory drugs so to say the Bible doesn’t address pot and the like is a misnomer. Also, the Bible mentions “your body is a temple of God” so smoking and the like violates this as well. The same goes for all actions or intake which harms the body.
Andrew Zirschky has a great point. Way to go Andrew, well said. :)
September 29th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
Law and Grace? That seems to be what is being played out here.
In regards to the posts shared here - As I was reminded frequently in seminary: “Protect your call.”
That doesn’t mean to lie about who you are, but be careful about what you share.
September 29th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
The Bible talaks about sorcery and the word pharmicea refers to hallucinatory drugs so to say the Bible doesn’t address pot and the like is a misnomer.
Ummm…pot is not a “hallucinatory” drug.
Also, the Bible mentions “your body is a temple of God” so smoking and the like violates this as well. The same goes for all actions or intake which harms the body.
Curious…how often do you work out? If your body is a temple of God, should we not work to keep in the best shape possible? How often do you eat fast food? Or drink pop (soda for all of you strange ones)? My guess is that you have few problems with these things, which are no better for you than tobacco or jpot.
September 29th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Where do we draw the line between being a religious fanatic & discernment? How about between lawlessness and grace?
I agree with Geoff. There is a mission much bigger than music, and the real issue is the state of people’s hearts. Check your hearts. If you are confident that it is in the right attitude towards God, according to the bible, then move on and do something to serve him!
If only Christians were really working for the Kingdom, then they would put little differences aside!
(PS> if music that makes you want to dance is fleshly, would you be dancing behind King David, or scorning through a window?)
September 29th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
Seems to me the flesh was involved with the Incarnation, too. Or is docetism the new orthodoxy in “Bible church” fundamentalism?
September 30th, 2006 at 2:07 am
Ingrid sounds like a Stepford Christian! ICK!!!! God, help her and God save us from people like her!
September 30th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
DH, just for the record I wasn’t painting everyone in her camp as a racist [ you can see that I was trying to put a [bracket] around a parenthetical thought but I must have mistyped. I could see how you could read that so thanks for drawing my attention to it. Although you have to admit her comments were clearly grotesque and racist.
But read thier sight and tell me they aren’t spewing hate and intolerance!
I think it is so wierd that up until a week ago I didn’t even know this site existed and now both Adam and I have had run-ins with it.
Erc
September 30th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
What I find so fascinting about Slice and Ingrid and also Carla at Emergent No - is that they are so extremely vocal about how females (in their opinion) should not have authority over men. Yet I don’t know if I have seen any other blogs where someone challenges, rebukes, and voices their theology etc. to a mixed male and female blog audience. It seems that they keep saying women should not have authority over males in teaching, yet in their blogs they constantly teach, challenge, confront and rebuke men (and women). So they somehow make a distinction of teaching in a church building on a Sunday from what they do on their blogs. Also the radio show that Ingrid has, she definetly is always teaching on it as she says her opinoons and tells what she feels the Bible says etc.
I believe they are sisters in Jesus are sincere in what they feel they are doing as being right and protective of the faith. But I never understand the dichotomy of how they take the role they do, knowing their strong positions on women and teaching. Teaching is not just limited to standing in a pulpit on a Sunday.
I also would encourage everyone in our interaction to be gentle, kind and although we may have very strong differences of opinion about something, to not be araid to share that difference but let us not lessen ourselves and not be showing the fruits of the Spirit as we do share our differences. Then we lose either way not being kind and gentle and respecting other human beings as brothers and sisters in Jesus.
October 2nd, 2006 at 12:41 am
Ingrid is one mean-spirited chick.
Adam, I ditto Andrew Z’s comments.
Dave…marijuana is most definitely a hallucinogen. Pot is far, far worse than eating a big of junk food here and there, or failingn to go to the gym. And for the record, I’m not some Christian wowser - my friends and I know, from far too many tragedies in our lives, that pot is not just a bit of fun.
October 4th, 2006 at 5:02 am
So an emergent Christian can take any kinds of drugs (e.g. crystal meths) and still remain in a relationship with God?
After all, crystal meths may damage your brain, but it leaves your soul unscathed, doesn’t it?
Today’s super-strength pot may hasten the onset of schizophrenia in those so predisposed, but can it permanently damage our relationship with God?
Can a severely retarded person be an emergent Christian? Or would he have to go into a coma first?
October 4th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
Not trying to troll or anything, but I wanted to add something that I think may add to the whole ‘conversation’ here about this posting. Although I do not agree with what Ingrid said so much (she is entitled to free speech), I do have to say that I disagree with the analyses by many here.
Many have thrown the stones at her by calling her a racist. Honestly that is far-fetched and hard to back up. Critiquing music and slandering someone because of the color of their skin are two different things. She never said the music was bad based on the color of their skin. Racism is a word that gets thrown around way to much these days and unfortunately it gets thrown at people whenever someone disagrees with them.
If you are going to disagree with Ingrid, and I do on some points, I think she went a little too far, at least disagree with her on the true subject matter and that was her critique of the music. Nowhere was she attacking people because of their skin color.
So, lets put the stones down and reason this out. OKay! I just dont like seeing the word “racism” thrown where it ought not be. Its overused and many times used in the wrong context especially against other Christians.
Blessings,
October 4th, 2006 at 6:24 pm
omigosh! I just laughed so hard I almost pissed my pants. Your first post on this just made me feel sick because I’ve been on the receiving end of this in my last church. People driven by legalism are prone to believe the worst and so by the time my personal freedom got out into the larger community it had turned into false accusations of supplying alcohol to minors, and overseeing and explosion of immorality, cussing and drinking in the young adult ministry. All of which was a lie. Not a “misunderstanding”, but lies. This audio clip just redeemed my feelings. Thanks for the chance to howl.
October 4th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
truthseeker, you’ve excessively reduced racism and prejudice to skin color. asserting cultural superiority and belittling others is every bit as hateful as bigotry based on skin color.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Perhaps we all need to take a deep breath and show our brothers and sisters some grace?
October 5th, 2006 at 9:49 am
Nick,
You are missing the point by a huge margin. She was not attacking them in a racist way. She was critiquing the style of music. She has done this with people who incidently are white, asian, etc.. If she was racist she would have said that because they are black, or predominately black, their music is bad. But she doesnt and this is where you are wrong. She critiqued the music against the grid of her understanding of scripture, not through her lens of culture.
I disagree with her analasys but it was not racist in any way. She was not making her “culture” more superior than others. I disagree that she said it was trash as I see that music from all cultures are just as equal in the eyes of God, if they are directed to him in worship. What Ingrid was saying, as I understand it, that she percieves that this style of music is not worship music and is not edifying. It has nothing, and I repeat nothing, to do with race.
Let’s get over the stupid race card these days. It’s over used…blah,blah, blah. Dont see me whining because I was attacked because of my race when I was a kid. I got over it, it happens, we move on. It hasnt stifled me, in fact it has made me stronger and a better man. Oh and by the way…I am white, so racism does get directed towards us as well.
But lets stop throwing words that do not pertain.
Blessings,
November 29th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Look for the credentials of the people on Slice: Ingrid is a broadcaster. Apparently no schooling in the Bible, nor in logical argument either. Ken is a self-taught pastor. Vic has an honorary degree. Not that we can’t educate ourselves, but that we shouldn’t expect someone else to take our words a gospel without some backing and schooling.
What is sad, from my own point of view, is that the radio station this stuff is on is the only “Christian” station that is in the area my sister lives in. She has definetly been steeped in this stuff. I’ve had to listen to a number of the various speakers when I’m with her. There is so much talk of sin and wallowing in sin. We ARE sinners, no doubt, but we are FORGIVEN! That seems to be forgotten by some sub-segments of Christianity.
December 18th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
*Raises my mug of Boddington’s to Nick”
In what has to be one of the most juvinile impulses I’ve ever followed, I made a parody site of SoL… I’m pretty green at the whole blog thing but if you like me find Ingrid to be pretty much a caricuture you may enjoy it. Its slightly crude, but how else could I get under her skin. If you have a moment check out http://www.sliceolaodicea.com . If you’re not interested please forgive the shameless blog promotion and I’ll take the 39 lashes.
Grace and Peace,
PL