No words.
July 15, 2006
I really don’t know exactly what to say. I find the violent and increasingly aggressive actions of Israel appalling, especially Israel’s outright disregard for Lebanese civilians. I thank Marko for his recent post and thoughts about Israel’s aggressive response [I would link to him but I don't want certain readers of this blog to leave nasty comments on his blog]. I hope Christians would use this time to begin to rethink their outright or implicit support of the State of Israel.
A recent article in the NY Times was entitled "Bush Will Not Tell Israel to Halt Offensive." Duh. Did we really think Bush, or many other Conservative/Fundamentalist Christians would even begin to question Israel on anything? Nope - you have to leave it up to the Presbyterians and Mainliners, and then watch us get burned at the stake for even proposing to begin to investigate the possibility of divesting. All of a sudden we become anti-semites and we have to offer a public apology and take back our words. Now, I’m all for interfaith relations, dialogue and the works. I think unity between people of different faiths is crucial to bringing about the kingdom of God in the here-and-now. But perhaps there are times when there is something greater than unity? Perhaps there are times when justice and compassion must come first. Perhaps the prophetic words that speak the most truth will not bring about unity, perhaps they will be hard to say, and hard to hear.
I’ve mentioned a quote on this blog before, and I believe it is more poignant now than ever: "Jews were innocent in their suffering; they are not innocent in their power." Israel is the most powerful military force in the Middle East, and probably second in the world only to their closest ally, the United States. It is unexcusable for Israel to play the "Oh poor us, oh poor us"-card anymore. I am saddened by the violent acts committed against Israel, and to see the pictures of both Israeli and Lebanese children (like in the above photos, a Lebanese child on the left, an Israeli child on the right) and families who have been injured and killed by the recent attacks. I do not think it is right for Hezbollah to be firing rockets into Israeli towns. But Israel’s response has been so imbalanced it is amazing. In response to the capture of 2 Israeli soldiers, the State of Israel’s military response has caused the death of an additional 13 Israelis and over 80 Lebanese civilians. It is time for more people to begin calling into question the practices of the Israeli "Defense" Forces.
I can only imagine what the immediate future of the Middle East is with the violence in Gaza, now in Lebanon, and the ever-tightening grip on the people of the West Bank/Occupied Territories. A Third Intifada seems much more a reality - and I think of my friends and host-’family’ in the West Bank and wonder how they are doing, what they’re thinking, how they will respond and if they are safe. There is much more to write, more questions I have, but I want to as you to pray for the Palestinians, the Israelis and the Lebanese. Pray for those in the Middle East. Pray for Ehud Olmert. Pray for Hezbollah. Pray for Hamas and its leaders. Pray and be well informed. And that may well mean reading sources even other than CNN or the BBC. I’ve listed a few below that can be helpful to present another side of the story:
Palestine News Network (based in Bethlehem)
Al-Jazeera
Electronic Intifada
Posted in 
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
July 15th, 2006 at 10:18 am
“Pray and be well informed”
I can’t believe you said this and then listed Al-Jazeera as a source of well informed inforamtion. That’s amazing! What next Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler?
There is no such thing as unbiased reporting of information and facts, but maybe you could cite some things in balance of these sources. Or not. It’s you’re blog and biased in and of its own right.
Grace & Peace.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Jason, this seems to be a pretty inaccurate conception from the West. Al-Jazeera isn’t some terrorist-sponsored news agency or something. This is the CNN or the BBC of the Middle East. Sure it has its biases - just like BBC, and CNN do. I’m presenting it as an addition to your other news sources, so that you can get information and news from both sides of the situation.
I’m not even going to address your ‘analogy’ to “Mein Kampf.”
July 15th, 2006 at 11:10 am
In general, if someone is trying to get a broader and more indepth view of the news, I recommend the Economist. There aren’t many pictures and they use big words, but it’s usually worth reading ;-)
July 15th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Another good read: “From Beirut to Jerusalem” by Friedman. Thanks for these words Adam, despite the nasty comments you may receive…
July 15th, 2006 at 12:16 pm
Hey Adam,
Thanks for offering a “balanced” view on such a complicated subject. For most of us Americans it seems so hard to understand this issue. And for us bloggers, it’s hard to say much without stirring up some deep opinions and frustrations.
At the end of the day, it just sucks that we can’t really do much to make a difference. We can talk, discuss, pray, argue etc…But what can be done to really make a difference?
Any thoughts?
July 15th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
Under the “being well informed” category come these two timely articles from the New Yorker archives: Part 1 and Part 2, both regarding Hezbollah, which the author calls “the most successful terrorist organization in modern history.‚Äù They’re at least worth considering in this much-more-than-two-sided issue.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
The violence is indeed frustrating to witness. However, I am wondering what you would suggest Israel do instead of their current plan? If you are willing to criticize a nation who is acting in self defense (and I am sure everyone will agree that attacking Lebanese missle capabilities is acting in self defense), what would you do if you were in charge? How do you deal with people who carry a fundamental belief that you have no right to exist? We have no analogy of that in the West. Furthermore, your typoical criticism of our president seems to ring with the same problem. What should Bush do? Should he join with many other nations and simply condemn Israel? Is that justice? And by the way, you should actually talk with some “fundamentalist Christian/Conservatives” before you roundly judge them all. You might be surprised to see that many of them have actually thought about this situation with the same passion that you yourself seem to have done. ;)
July 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
As much of a mainliner as I am, it does not do us any good to dismiss our evangelical brothers, and more importantly we should try to raise within them a passion for peace. Cutting them down does nothing and only further pushes the divide. The conservative magazine Christianity Today has published a well thought article on this that actually attempts to help people understand why a peaceful process is important. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/128/53.0.html
Although we spend a lot of time dismissing the right (and reading the terrible articles by Relevant Magazine instead) it seems they are the ones with a good mostly non-biased focus here that can unite rather then divide.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
I enjoyed your post on the topic, but I would just add it might be helpful to read from a guy like Krauthammer on this subject instead of just the NYtimes. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/13/AR2006071301667.html
July 16th, 2006 at 12:54 am
“Did we really think Bush, or many other Conservative/Fundamentalist Christians would even begin to question Israel on anything? Nope - you have to leave it up to the Presbyterians and Mainliners, and then watch us get burned at the stake for even proposing to begin to investigate the possibility of divesting.”
I don’t think that is completely fair.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:03 am
Which part is not fair, Big Mike Lewis? Seems a bit strongly worded to me. But there’s some truth to it.
The unfortunate thing, from my POV, is how we’re unable to have a conversation about this. Sometimes we get insightful blog posts here and there, but overall we’ve been numbed to the whole thing. There are people talking now (see for instance the liberal Drum and the conservative Reynolds) about why they can’t seem to talk about it more. Too much vitriol, and too little backbone, I guess. From where I sit, I weep. I pray. I search for peace, and find too little of it.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:35 am
As a Christian I am a pacifist, so of course think that both sides are pursuing a path that will inevitably fail. Violence begets violence. This is true on both sides.
What bothers me about your post Adam is the anti-semitism that leaks through:
“Jews were innocent in their suffering; they are not innocent in their power.”
To make this about “Jews” is to reveal a fundamental misunderstanding of contemporary middle eastern politics–just as to make the “war on terror” about Islam. This is dangerous territory for anyone, let alone Christians–and frankly surprising from someone who seems committed to a more progressive, tolerant and nuanced approach to issues.
I am continually troubled by the knee-jerk anti-Israel and anti-semitic positions from Christians, especially on the left. I am equally bothered by knee-jerrk pro-Israel stands on the right.
But for everyon’s sake, please avoid anything that sounds like or could feed anti-semitism.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
Exactly how is Ben’s righteous indignation any better than what he’s mistakenly acusing Adam of? It’s possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic. Acording to Ben’s calculus it’s impossible to speak with any historical context about Israel’s role in the region. Throwing in pass√© political correctness to the debate is silly and unproductive.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Andrew-
My point is that Israel should be discussed qua Israel–as a political nation with a fair amount of diversity internally both politically and religiously.
Adam’s quote was about “Jews” and “Jewish power”– the idea of “Jewish power” is one that has been used often by anti-semites in Europe, throughout much of the world, and in this country as well.
My only cautionary note was to be careful with language.
There is enough anti-semitism within Christianity already…
The issue is not Jewish or Moslem, etc — it is about governments and politics and geopolitical complexities.
Making it about “Jews and their power” (a) misses the point; and (b) sounds a lot like old-school anti-semitism.
July 16th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
“Did we really think Bush, or many other Conservative/Fundamentalist Christians would even begin to question Israel on anything? Nope - you have to leave it up to the Presbyterians and Mainliners, and then watch us get burned at the stake for even proposing to begin to investigate the possibility of divesting.”
When you use this approach, you and those with you lose all credibility. I understand you are emotional about this. I understand the need for bombastic proclaimatios. I understand your view is not the most popular. But to cut down some of those who are your brothers and sisters in Chirst in this manner is no better than what happens to you when you are burned at the stake. Leaving out the entire issue of Isreal and the Middle East, your words are damaging to the work of Christ as much as those on the other side. But you’d probably never admit that…
July 16th, 2006 at 5:50 pm
I didn’t mean to sound harsh or strong-worded.
I just see a sharp knee-jerk reaction to typical ‘righty republican Christianity’ to going to the other extreme which is that ‘only liberals care about peace and justice’.
I think going to either extreme is very flawed. I don’t have to agree with Bono to be a good Christian. I think the reaction Christians should have is to love all sides and pray huge prayers. We should love and care for everyone including the radicals (not that we should condone what they do…punishment is also part of God’s character).
We should try to support a process of resolving this conflict that will come the quickest…but we aren’t treating the president with much respect or Christian love if we immediately start bashing him. We shouldn’t lump entire groups into compartmentalized places when not everyone thinks the same way. Even liberal Christians don’t agree on everything…so we should do everything with grace.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
Also,
I think that is why I try to separate politics from all things of Jesus because no one acts like Jesus in their politics. I’ve never seen it and don’t expect to.
Christians need to be the ones to start stepping up and being known as the peacemakers and social justice bringers instead of knuckleheads in Hollywood who use everything to make money.
July 16th, 2006 at 11:25 pm
Hmm…
Adam: “Did we really think Bush, or many other Conservative/Fundamentalist Christians would even begin to question Israel on anything? Nope - you have to leave it up to the Presbyterians and Mainliners, and then watch us get burned at the stake for even proposing to begin to investigate the possibility of divesting” (my emphasis)
BML: “I just see a sharp knee-jerk reaction to typical ‘righty republican Christianity’ to going to the other extreme which is that ‘only liberals care about peace and justice’.” (my emphasis)
I don’t see Adam saying this, BML. Its a strawman argument: its *not* only liberals who care about peace and justice. I see Adam calling out some Christians for not speaking out against what he sees as disproportionate violence. He says many, not all. And he’s right on when he talks about the flak that mainliners get when they/we voice concern about innocents being killed on both sides. Part of the problem, actually, is that precision isn’t attempted in trying to understand what each group is trying to say and where they are coming from. And the somewhat loose flinging of the accusation “anti-semite” is part of it, too…
[As an aside, though, I completely get and somewhat agree with what Ben Dubow is saying: the use of the term "The Jews" in this argument is fraught with danger. I suspect Adam misspoke; I hope so, at any rate. Its not true that The Jews are the problem here. The state of Israel is exercising disproportionate force (at least it was before those rockets started falling), not "The Jews".]
I like your formulation here: “I think the reaction Christians should have is to love all sides and pray huge prayers. We should love and care for everyone including the radicals (not that we should condone what they do…punishment is also part of God’s character).” Christ would have done this precisely; he bids us pray for our enemies. But I don’t think that Christ urges us to not be political. That sentiment, in some sense, is part of what I think Adam is reacting to. But I’ll leave it to him to make that connection, if he so wishes….
I’d also like to commend this post at Ubuntu to get an idea of the divergent ways this is being reported in various places around the world.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:38 am
What about the rockets that rained on Haifa killing civlians?
Hizbollah started this with an unprovoked attack. Is Jewish life so less valuable that Arab life?
If rockets were coming down on your family how would you react? Wouldn’t you try to respond and make it stop? Wouldn’t you want to defend yourself?
Would YOU lay down and die to make Hizbollah happy?
July 17th, 2006 at 12:44 am
Kairos,
Adam does mean ‘the jews’. That is exactly what he means.
His point of view, like a sad minority of those in his church is full of hate and bigotry.
Those who wish to engage in dialogue are banned from this blog….no dialogue, no open or ‘progressive’ theology.
Its all crap. He hates Jews. If people like him really cared about the people of Lebanon they would help throw out Hizbollah and Syrian.
Polygamy and abuse of women are the rule in extreme Islam. Adam hates Jews he could care less about peace and justice.
July 17th, 2006 at 12:56 am
Melissa, good to have you back - I wondered if this post would bring back some comments.
I do not hate Jews. That’s an asinine condemnation and judgment to make based on your reading of my blog.
I do think the wording “the Jews” probably wasn’t the best, and I thought about that after writing the post. I think where that comes into play is the fact that it was the Jews who were massacred in the holocaust, and it is that memory that those in power in the State of Israel use so often to help play on the guilt, memory and sympathy of the world.
So perhaps “the Jews” isn’t the best term - but the point still stands: the State of Israel is absolutely the most powerful entity in that region, and they have more power than they know what to do with. And that is something that must be kept in check.
And again, Melissa, you do not read my posts thoroughly. You do not hear the sympathy that I have for both sides - for the losses on both sides. I just know that the losses are NOT equal (read the news, read the statistics…a dozen or so Israelis vs over a hundred Lebanese???), and Israel must be held accountable for her actions.
July 17th, 2006 at 2:29 am
Actually Melissa it was started when the two Israeli soldiers crossed the green line. I could list many other infractions that lead up to this event on both sides. To say that the Israeli state is simply acting with self preservation in mind is seriously flawed logic!
July 17th, 2006 at 12:10 pm
Sorry Scott, Hezbollah went into Israel and captured the Israeli troops not the other way around. When is Hezbollah going to be criticized? Why all of the attack on Israel when Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are working together? I don’t understand this short sited view by those who are anti-Israel.
July 17th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Make sure to add “Israeli hating :: Terrorist loving” under the I AM at the top of the page…
July 19th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
For the record…
I wasn’t suggesting and don’t think that Adam is anti-semite — I think the language he used is open to being interpreted that way.
Sometimes, mis-using language will cloud people from hearing your message… I think that is what happened here and seems to happen a lot on this blog.
Again, I disagree with Adam’s assessment and position, but my main problem was his use of inflamatory language…
July 19th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
CNN Reports:
“Hezbollah continued to fire rockets into northern Israel Wednesday, killing two Israeli children in Nazareth, the southernmost point where Israeli casualties have been reported so far. With the deaths, 29 Israelis — 15 civilians and 14 soldiers — have been killed in the weeklong fighting, according to the IDF.”
But I’m guessing you won’t see any of those pitures here. This is a human tragedy with much blame to go around. But defiending terrorists? That’s just bizarre.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
Thanks for the welcome back Adam.
When you post rants about ‘the jews’ its tough to take you as meaning something else that is not bigotry. Thats the sort of crap one sees at Nazi sites or on Electronic Intifada.
My hope is that all people of the region can live in peace free of Hizbollah and Hamas and their insanity.
It has been enough.
And what would YOU suggest Israel do? Allow its people to be killed with no action simply to please Islamic extreamists and people who support them?
July 20th, 2006 at 3:50 pm
People like Paul and Melissa are way too quick to lob their “bigotry” bombs. Israel is a Jewish state.
“WE DECLARE that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People’s Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People’s Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called “The State of Israel”.”
It is not anti-Semitic, prejudicial, immoral, or even unreasonable to refer to “Jews” on one side of this conflict.
To think that the current escalation started with the discrete event of the capture of two Israeli soldiers is naive. How many thousands of Palestinian political prisoners are in Israeli jails? How many prisoner exchanges have taken place in the past?
There was a time when people of conscience could agree that collective punishment was wrong. That a 30-to-1 kill ratio was shocking.
None of this is “terrorist loving,” denies Israel’s right to protect itself, or excuses the barbarism of Hezbollah.
There is very little moral high ground left on either side of this conflict. When witnessing a fight between a David and a Goliath, I tend to empathize more with the former.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Let’s be well informed???
Not just the BBC or CNN but the
Palestine News Network
Al-Jazeera
Electronic Intifada ???
LOL
I would call none of these “news sources” credible.
This is what you get from a site that places no credibility in the Scriptures.
All this aside I find this to be the most disturbing portion of the post:
“I think unity between people of different faiths is crucial to bringing about the kingdom of God in the here-and-now. But perhaps there are times when there is something greater than unity? Perhaps there are times when justice and compassion must come first. Perhaps the prophetic words that speak the most truth will not bring about unity, perhaps they will be hard to say, and hard to hear.”
First and foremost the unity of all faiths is not the Kingdom of God. God’s unity in Christ is already an established fact. We do nor need to create it. Your unity is man’s unity,i.e. the Gospel of Kofi.
You are correct though in that true prophecy is not only hard to hear, but it will also be hard to accept when it becomes manifest.
I’m baaaack!
July 20th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Chris P! No way — my man is back!! ;)
If you deny all of the aforementioned “news sources” (as you wrote), can you please share with us some new sources that you would think are credible.
I didn’t say that unity of people from different faiths WAS the kingdom of God - but I believe that unity and peace is a part of that vision for a new world and a world that is ruled by God’s love and peace - a world of SHALOM.
Obviously we’ll disagree on that…glad we agree that prophetic words are words that are hard to hear and accept though…
July 20th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
Too quick to lob bigotry bombs? How about not NEARLY quick enough? Honestly, I can deal with secular liberals. No problem - they have their opinions - that is their world view. But I can’t deal with a professing Christian (right Adam? I guess I shouldn’t assume just b/c you are at Seminary) who wants to be so PC that he won’t call a spade a spade. This is a black and white issue, an issue of good versus evil, an issue of peace versus chaos. There is no moral equivalency between between the nation of Israel and the terrorists.
The most heart breaking thing about liberal professing Chritians is that they teach their followers that God is a relative, wishy-washy, unsure God.
Stand for something Adam - and make sure it is biblical.
July 21st, 2006 at 12:51 am
Obviously these coarse Israelis (your “jews”)– who sit hiding with their children in bomb shelters– are not cut from such a fine cloth as you christians and pacifists are, who are able to “turn the other cheek” even as you sit comfortably in your Ivy League settings sipping lattes. It must make you feel very superior and good about yourselves that you are so courageous in your believes. Observe how you turn the other cheek for others who are actually suffering the violence, while you sit in the comfort safety. What an interesting morality you have. It makes no sense, but interesting.
July 21st, 2006 at 7:02 pm
“Jews”
Adam has adopted the language of his Hamas pals. And what things go forth from the mouth, go out of the heart.
July 23rd, 2006 at 5:00 pm
Andrew, with all due respect rants about ‘the jews’ are inflammatory. Collective ad hominum attacks on Jews are as wrong as those on Muslims. And just as dangerous.
This sort of thing solves nothing, attack a people for ‘exploiting’ their genocide? This is offensive and yes, it does sound anti semitic even if thats not the intent.
People of all faithes should be able to speak and share ideas with being attacked that way.
How can we help stop bombs from falling if people who are supposed to be Christians post such hateful sounding language?
July 24th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
Melissa,
With all due respect, baloney. A dispassionate reading of the original offending quote does not reveal any bigotry or racism. If it sounds anti-Semitic to you, then you should examine your own motives.
I do not know what kind of history you have with Adam, but your accusations that he hates Jews is not supported by what he has written on this site‚Äîthe only thing I have on which to base my opinions. In fact, your accusation that his entire church hates Jews is eerily close to the “collective ad hominem” attack you accuse Adam of.
How can you expect to help stop bombs from falling if people who are supposed to be Christians read so much hate into what they are reading?