God. Not politics.
March 12, 2006
Tonight, as I was handing out Midterm Snack Bags in the Princeton University dorms, and I ran across this poster. Last semester, the ministry I’m interning with, Princeton Presbyterians, did a book/Bible study using Jim Wallis’ book "God’s Politics." I wonder if Princeton Evangelical Fellowship is trying to say anything about that. Interesting sign. Anyone have any thoughts on this sign?
Posted in Politics
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
March 12th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
Hmm. Who is in this group? I (a rather — okay reliably — liberal Presbyterian)also considers herself evangelical. If you might be so bold, how would you describe those in this “evangelical”/God-not-politics group. (And good luck with that, I might say to them.)
March 12th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Interesting that their tagline is “not as scary or as crazy as you might think”.
That’s on a par with “Brand X hamburgers, now with 50% less rat!”
March 12th, 2006 at 11:45 pm
Jan - it’s a pretty conservative group of students and leaders. Not the types of evangelicals that Wallis or McLaren would claim to be. Typical Campus Crusade stuff.
March 13th, 2006 at 12:22 am
Yikes. ‘God’ is always already political (unless perhaps you’ve turned off your head and are doing large doses of Romanticism).
March 13th, 2006 at 12:36 am
>>>’God’ is always already political
Maybe you should attend that meeting. Who knows, you might learn something new.
March 13th, 2006 at 1:10 am
God, not politics?
. . . fine by me.
March 13th, 2006 at 8:13 am
hmm… interesting. i really like the sign. i agree that our theology and view of God always shapes our politics, but i think that in our polarized society evangelical often means “republican.” i am wondering if the fellowship is trying to reach out to people who aren’t conservative like they are and say “hey, democrats, libertarians, communists, WHOEVER” come to this meeting, we care about God here. if so, that is AWESOME. maybe i’m being too generous, but that seems to be more the intent of the poster than some other message like “God’s politics is the stupidest book ever, and we should start a campaign against it…”
i’m curious to read people’s comments, though, because it’s interesting…
March 13th, 2006 at 8:48 am
I’d side with Traci on this one. Anyone who’s watched the news coming out of Princeton U. this past year knows about the strife that partisan politics have created on campus. Protests against Republican tactics in front of Frist Hall (notice the name). Condi Rice’s appearance this past fall created tension as well. And the list could go on. It seems to me the evangelicals are simply trying to separate themselves from the partisan fray. Further, I doubt the Princeton Presbyterians are even on their radar, much less to the degree they’d hang signs concerning you.
March 13th, 2006 at 9:28 am
I’m always amused by the assumed religion-spirituality/politics dichotomy - as if they are in any way separate. But I guess how we think about it betrays which side we are on when it comes to the identity and mission of the church.
“Politic” by it’s very definition implies a group. As Reformed Christians we place a huge emphasis on the church (the community gathered), for that is where the work of Christ is continued through the power of the Holy Spirit. To be a Christian is to be in relationship. To say that you can have God without “politics” is like saying that you can be a Christian in isolation.
To say there is no “politics” taking precedence within their group is a little misleading, but I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they simply want a certain type of politics. If you look at their front page you find: “We offer many opportunities for you to investigate the true claims of the historical Christian faith, and the difference Jesus Christ can make in your life.” That is, by its very nature, a political act. They are attempting to change the way in which you interact with society at large (to be accurate, they are making the claim that you get to make the call).
One of the beautiful things about words is that we get to use them, but we should always be careful that we use them responsibly.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:30 am
>>>>So if the Democrat and Republican party ceized to exist religion/spirituality would dissapear with them?
No, Juan. I never said anything about Dems or the GOP. Politics encompasses much more that the parties that think they make it up.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:37 am
Hey, Adam -
Looks like some comments have been mysteriously shifted from one post to another.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:40 am
Landon, I have no idea what happened to Juan’s comment. Juan, I didn’t do anything to it - I don’t know how it changed to a different post. That is so weird. Well, hopefully there aren’t any problems with Typepad.
March 13th, 2006 at 10:44 am
They probably mean no partisan politics. Means you’re there to study God’s word, not go around blasting “Bush” or “Liberals”. Doesn’t mean that “issues” aren’t allowed to come up in the discussion. I’ve attended evangelical Bible studies all my life and we tend to stear clear of the partisan politics. It gets in the way. The more extreme political animals tend to be in the minority and they don’t get to set the agenda.
March 13th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Matt,
I’m interested in this sentence:
From your experience how are those “issues” handled? It still sounds to me as if political issues and faith are treated as mutually exclusive and that matters of faith have no immediate impact on the living of a “political” life, a life in which one is a part of a group and that group’s decision making function.
March 13th, 2006 at 11:13 am
I think there’s a difference between being involved/debating about issues that might be thought of as “politics” and some of the b.s. that goes along with formal politics (as practiced by many politicians).
Hope that made sense.
March 13th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Landon,
it’s like when you’re at church. I’m assuming it’s not sermons about how evil Republicans are every Sunday. I know some pastors can’t help themselves, but I think they are the minority. Right?
March 13th, 2006 at 11:27 am
So it’s a lack of “bashing” and use of respectful discourse? I’m okay with that definition.
But what happens when people rail on a pastor(s) for engaging in the kind of confrontation (boycotts, rallies, etc.) someone like MLK was engaged in? Do you think that Princeton Evangelical Fellowship (or yourself) would call that “God” or “politics”?
March 13th, 2006 at 11:35 am
Given that “evangelical” has been portrayed as “Republican” by media and by progressive/ liberal Christians (not to mention “bigoted and generally evil”), I don’t think this is so much a “spirituality apart from political engagment” claim as it is a claim that “we’re not all shills for the GOP.”
Of course, they’re self-identified as evangelicals. So no matter what, they’re going to be toast in the eyes of many.
March 13th, 2006 at 11:43 am
Probably “God” because MLK wasn’t involved in the kind of politicizing that you see Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson doing today. He was trying to communicate across partisan lines, just like Bono does today (and that’s probably why the civil rights bill was a bipartisan bill).
But not all “God” is about “issues”. Lots of it is personal growth and developing relationship with the Lord. It’s not all civil rights and gay marriage and war in Iraq.
March 13th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
as a political agnostic I think the church has been hijacked by the left and right for too long.
March 13th, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Matt -
I hope I’m not just being contrary, but I think that the myth of Dr. King has overshadowed the fact that folks in his day believed he was involved in the same kind of politicizing you think Sharpton and Jackson are involved in. He was a lightening rod of controversy that many in the civil rights movement wished they could do away with. Our generation loves him because, for the most part, we were told we should love him (a fact I am glad for!).
Jackson and Sharpton came up in the post-MLK era (the black power era). The reason they employ the tactics they do is because Dr. King’s death proved to them (and folks like Stokley Carmichael, Eldridge Cleaver, etc.) that no matter how conciliatory we tried to be someone shot the dreamer. If you are going to murder this man why should we continue playing by your rules?
I would agree that not all “God” is about “issues”, but, again, to separate “personal growth and developing relationship with the Lord” from “civil rights and gay marriage and war in Iraq” seems to me to be impossible, or, at the very least, undesirable.
March 13th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Landon,
clearly that meeting isn’t for you as you seem to be extremely politicized and you’d probably just end up causing division. You care about “issues” and saving the world. Whereas most people are too busy trying to fix the garbage in their own personal lives. They are broken people seeking redemption, beginning with relationship with God. It’s likely some don’t even know the God of the Bible and are just showing up to learn more about Him. You must not have any need for that, and that’s why you have so much time to save the world. Of course, given it’s Princeton, these poor broken slobs are probably middle class white Americans, which means they don’t count in terms of the people you want to save.
March 13th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
Hmmm…Seems to me that God is political. Do we even realize (us evangelicals like me) that gathering in the name of God is a political statement?
March 13th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Political statemnet? No, it goes beyond mear politics. That is such an earthly creation it is patethetic. When we gather together in God’s name it’s an expression of faith.
March 13th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
You restate my point well, Sam:
When we gather we are saying “We believe that this is how the Kingdom of God that ‘is at hand’ should look” and that has everything to do with what we as a gathered community say about things such as civil rights and gay marriage and war in Iraq. If we believe that we have been called together in a certain way, then that understanding should be, ought to be, extended to those outside of the gathered community. It would be hypocritical for us to act one way within and another way without.
I’m not sure where we’ve disconnected, Dave. Yes, the gathering of the community goes beyond “mere politics” (which I read as the logistical day-to-day campaigning, legislating, etc) - I don’t know that anyone has asserted that it remains there. What we are saying, however, is that our “expression of faith” is itself a political act.
Faith is political, and (back to one of Adam’s original points) that is precisely what, I think, Jim Wallis was trying to say with his phrase “God is personal but never private.” And this is a decidedly evangelical thing to say. It was John Howard Yoder that first articulated this in his writings.
(BTW - I did an interview with Wallis for a podcast I used to do. IF you want to listen to it, you can find it here.)
March 13th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Hmm, when I first read the sign, I thought the group was coming down on your (Adam’s) God’s Politics/Bible study (because you had mentioned it in the same post). Looking at it again, I see that was not the case. I just read the post wrong.
Coming from an [E]vangelical background (read: conservative Republican), I have had the opportunity to work with many in the conservative backgrounds I grew up in, and although many of them don’t necessarily agree with my conclusions or emergent’s conclusions or the Christian left’s conclusions (which is fine - we’re all Christ’s body after all), many of them agree that the concept of “Christianity=Republican/Bush Politics” is misguided and is not at all the purpose of the Gospel.
I would assume (just on my reading of the sign - the second time) that this group is probably made up of like-minded people who really do want to explore the Gospel without the “bashing” and “extorting.”
It’s true, because of Christianity’s role in civil rights, social justice, and fighting global poverty - all good things - the faith will always be associated with politics, even though the political process itself often annoyed Jesus. For this reason (and others), I’m sure issues are discussed, but perhaps the members are becoming more sensitive to the opinions of others and are okay with differing opinions - without the “bashing.” Just my thoughts. Sorry for the long response. I’m often told I take the long way around getting to a point. I’m aware of it and I’m looking into it.
Godspeed.
March 13th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
the long way is often the scenic route.
March 13th, 2006 at 8:03 pm
Two thoughts:
1. It’s just interesting to see how jumpy and divided people get at even the MENTION of “politics”. Unfortunately, we are a divisive people.
2. Yes, being a Christian, a follower of Christ is by its very nature political - BUT, the system of politics that exists in North America today is a sick, SICK system that by its very nature requires a Christian to be against it - on principle alone! If the NT was written today I think you’d see Repbulicans & Democrats subbing in for Pharisees & Sadducees. Jesus is in favour of neither.
And I think THAT is what that statement means. Of course, I haven’t seen the sign and have no clue who’s in the group. But it’s really funny to see people in my same situation bashing them straight up, a little Christian love anyone?
Crap, there I go again, getting on that soapbox, getting long-winded - I promised I wouldn’t get this way, I promised to be nice…
March 13th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Ok I didn’t have a chance to read all of the comments made but, if my understanding of the bible is correct. Hebrew though involved all aspects of life. Look at the Muslems now. What time they get up, the call of prayer, the way they dress, their whole lives are dictated by their religon. Some may say thats a bad thing. All though I may not agree with some of the things they do/believe in. I have yet to find alot of “Christians” that will give their lives for their belief (in God). They just want to sit at home on their butts and watch sportscenter(nothing wrong with that show).
I guess what I am trying to say is we should stop thinking in a Greek Perspective but more like a Hebrew or dare I say Muslem way of thinking, where our whole life revolves around 1. Loving God and
2. Loving our neighbor as ourself.
Everything else will fall into place after that. No worries. Done Deal.
There is an old tune “They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love.”
Sorry to go off, my Bible study this morning is spilling into the words I share with other people.
G’day