“Things that matter…”
November 16, 2005
I recently heard the following quote from someone very involved in LGBT issues in the church, and it just didn’t sit right with me. Here is the quote:
“The gay issue, the issue which is the issue du jour, is distracting us from what we really need to be about. And the only reason I’m focused on it is that I want to help the mainline churches get beyond their impasse, so that we really can get on to the things that matter.”
I guess the part of the quote that bothers me is the implication that “the gay issue” is not one of “things that matter.” That, this group of people who are struggling for belonging and recognition of the church, present merely a stumbling block, or an impasse that the church needs to be able to “get beyond” or deal with, and then…then the church will be able to get to the things that “really” matter.
I would argue that the question about belonging, membership and ordination are exactly part of the “things that matter” for the church - for these are issues about humanity and the dehumanizing of one’s humanity. These are issues of calling, and about one group trying to limit and/or negate the calling of LGBT Christians to the ministry to which God has called them. These are issues about our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters desiring to life full lives, whole lives - and being denied by Christians.
I too hope that one day these will not be questions that are still being asked. Just as the church [certain parts of it] realized it was wrong about slavery, that it was wrong about the question of women in ministry, I hope the church will be able to get past these questions, and start allowing the church to be a place where all may freely serve. So, yes - I too do hope that the church will get beyond these questions - but, when the church is creating possibilities for dehumanization - that, I would argue, is most certainly one of the “things that matter.”
Tags: Homosexuality, Sexuality, Theology
Posted in 
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
November 16th, 2005 at 10:28 am
adam, this is a beautiful post. i probably would have not taken issue with that statement because i do feel like people’s preoccupation with excluding gay and lesbian christians is keeping them from matters of caring for the poor and oppressed. but the point is well taken that the gay and lesbian community is being oppressed by not being allowed the freedom to pursue their calls and be accepted in christian life. i thank you for opening my eyes even wider and i too hope that one day we will all be able to freely work alongside one another to further the kingdom of God instead of trying to exclude fellow lovers of the Divine.
November 16th, 2005 at 10:31 am
I’ve always been lost on this issue - mainly because what I feel are my “views” seem so logical to me and yet so foreign to others (well, not here I see). Regardless of whether or not you think homosexuality is sin (not debating one way or the other - or wish to), what does that have to do with serving in the church, being part of the church, ordained, etc. Even the people that do think it is a sin don’t presume to think that those called to be active in the church or even just a part of the church are without sin.
I’ve always been lost on this issue - mainly because what I feel are my “views” seem so logical to me and yet so foreign to everyone else. Regardless of whether or not you think homosexuality is sin (not debating one way or the other - or wish to), what does that have to do with serving in the church, being part of the church, ordained, etc. Even the people that do think it is a sin don’t presume to think that those called to be active in the church or even just a part of the church are without sin.
Yet, so many Christian homosexuals (I know at least two for sure) are forced to hide who they are and lie to their peers. So are they just being forced to add sin into their lives for the sake of other people closed-mindedness? I really hope that we have someone that reads on here that is gay and willing to give their perspective. Mainly because you have conservatives saying “it’s a choice, you can change, etc.” and then I have my gay friends (even the Christians ones) saying that its not a choice and some even go as far as to say that they tried really hard to change and have been unsuccessful. So, who do YOU choose to believe?
My sister’s best friend is a lesbian. One of my little brothers in my fraternity is gay. The list goes on. People close to us are very much affected by this issue. By undermining the importance of the issue, we are basically saying to them that they are not important either – or that they are, only if they choose to change. Makes it easy to see why its so difficult for us to battle years of hate and show them that the love of God is something that can also be part of their lives – as they are.
November 16th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
EXCELLENT POST MR. ADAM. God bless you, and you have very thoughtful ideology and compassionate eyes, your mate is very fortunate, as you probably feel you are more so to be with her, because of the positive characteristics you show in your thoughts! WHOSOEVER John 3:16
November 16th, 2005 at 6:46 pm
Great post. While I do agree with Kyle Dawn that is does have the affect of taking away from some issues like helping the poor etc. this is still a great post.
But I guess I do have one question for Jose. For the people who do consider Homosexuality a sin, don’t you think they want a person (gay or not) who also considers it one, and will do their best not to keep commiting something considered a sin regardless of what the sin is?
I hope that makes sense. I just wonder about those people who take the other side of issue and how we can help them embrace people of differnt lifestyles.
November 16th, 2005 at 11:42 pm
i identify with this issue EXACTLY…about a month ago i was asked to leave ministry in a church simply because of being a straight-supporter. this church, a PCUSA church in NJ, obviously stands firm on the issue of homosexuality, enough to expel someone who isn’t even gay - just for position on the issue. this has presented me with an eye-opening experience…knowing that this issue is a serious one in the church today. but it has also presented a challenge, in that how do we as the body of CHRIST come together on this issue of homosexuality. i only pray that CHRIST himself can guide us.
peace…
peter
November 17th, 2005 at 10:42 am
>>”But I guess I do have one question for Jose. For the people who do consider Homosexuality a sin, don’t you think they want a person (gay or not) who also considers it one, and will do their best not to keep commiting something considered a sin regardless of what the sin is?”
November 17th, 2005 at 11:48 am
I’ve considered whether or not to post a response here for a little while mainly because I’m not sure that my thoughts have anything new to contribute to the discussion, but since one person did specifically mention soliciting ‘the gay perspective’, here goes. I’m officially clocking in as the token spokesperson.
There seems to be some disagreement over whether ‘the gay issue’ is simply an obstacle that the Church needs to move beyond in order to go about its real work or whether ‘the gay issue’ IS the Church’s real work. As a gay seminarian, the most difficult thing for me to deal with is not people who think that my ministry would be anathema. Rather, the circumstance which grieves me most is that I am in a very real sense what is ‘wrong’ with the Church.
People on both sides of the “sinful or not?” debate will generally agree that no matter your stance, the issue of homosexuality/same-sex relationships/gay clergy is one that is splitting denominations, congregations, and individual relationships between brothers & sisters in Christ. All you straight folks (with perhaps the exception of Peter above)… take a moment to digest that one. Think about what it might truly feel like if you understood yourself to be ‘the issue’ or even ‘the obstacle’.
What does it look like or feel like to be understood (by others and even yourself) to be the wedge that is splitting the tree that grew from the stump of Jesse? Of course the Church has weathered many divisions and schisms in the past… but that doesn’t change the fact that in our present moment, as it has been stated, LGBT persons in the church are the issue du jour. For those of you who would romanticize a fishbowl existence, you can have my fins & snorkel if you want.
How will the Body of Christ respond to the very real faith commitments of Christians who are gay? How do I as a gay man in seminary come to understand my role in that response? Am I a teacher… or a student… or just a classroom visual aid? Sometimes it feels mostly like the latter. But those are the questions with which we struggle, wrestling as with smoke.
Whatever your views on ‘the gay issue’, we cannot begin to hope for real dialogue until there is a common attempt by all to stop talking about “homosexuality” and start talking about “Christians”. I agree with Adam that this issue is very much the REAL work of the Church.
And I officially clock myself out of the spokesperson role with this final hope: that in whatever role God may choose to use each of us, we may continue to struggle with how to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.
November 17th, 2005 at 10:22 pm
amen Ben. as it is obvious that all of this weighs heavy on your heart, i simply pray that God may give you the PEACE to know that you are his child…and that YOU are NOT the issue. the issue is each and every one of us broken humans, struggling “with how to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God.”
peace to you brother…
peter