What does one do with these…?
July 24, 2005
We spent Saturday in Ramallah, the same day that Condoleeza Rice met with Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah, and we met with a couple human rights organizations, including Addammer and Defence for Children International-Palestine section (DCI/PS) (which also has an Israel section). They were the kind of presentations that kind of leave you feeling sort of numb after hearing so many statistics and stories about injustices and human rights violations. What DOES one do with statistics like these?
- Since September 2000, the beginning of the second Palestinian uprising against occupation (Intifada) DCI/PS has documented the case of each Palestinian child killed as a result of Israeli military and settler presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Since 9/00, there have been 708 child fatalities.
- There are at least 750 Palestinians in Israeli prisons being held without charge or trial.
- Since the beginning of this Intifada in September 2000, over 2500 children have been arrested.
What does one do with statistics like these?
The issue concerning children is just insane. To hear stories about how they arrest these children, and the type of legal representation they get in the military courts. One thing that has been happening very often recently is that the Israeli army will go in and arrest a child once they are 16 years old for something that they did when they were 11 or 12. The age breakdown is just ridiculous. The basic law for Israelis (which is not a territorial law, because this law is the same for Israeli citizens and for Jewish/Israeli settlers living within the Occupied Territories, but does not hold for Palestinians within the Occupied Territories) states that a child is legally a child until the internationally-recognized age of 18, and then they become an adult. Rather for Palestinians, from 0-12 you are a child. From 13-15 you are an ‘older child’ and then as soon as you hit 16, you are an adult.
So, you have kids who might have thrown stones when they were 10 or 11 years old. And now they are 16, the Israeli army comes in and arrests them, charges them as an adult, and now they are potentially looking at being held in prison for who knows how long and then they could be getting sentences for 6 months to much longer for something that they did years ago. We heard story after story about just some amazingly ridiculous reasons that people were arrested. And many times, there are no reasons whatsoever. Right now, the Israeli army can arrest anyone they want and detain them as long as they want and they don’t have to have any reason whatsoever.
Again, it’s hard to know what to do with all these stories and statistics. Many times they people who shared these stories with our group would just bust out laughing because of how ridiculous these stories were. Is it really for Israeli security to arrest hundreds and thousands of children? Is it really for Israeli security to arrest and charge a man with seeking out terrorist education because he watched a documentary on a TV news station about the history of the missile? Is it really for Israeli security that a teenage girl was arrested crossing a checkpoint because she had a knife in her back for her school art class, and she is being charged for attempting to stab someone (when she did nothing of the sort)?
And if you think this is all propaganda, go check out B’tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories) for more information from Israelis; or check out Amnesty International’s information on Israel and the Occupied Territories.
Tags: Children, Human Rights, Israel, Israeli Prisons, Middle East, Palestine, Travel
Posted in Politics
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Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
July 24th, 2005 at 12:33 pm
ignore them becuase numbers lie and they don’t really say much. Stop treating people like numbers. Treat people like persons. Put it into context. Ignore the numbers and go establish relationships with these people and learn their story. If anything, these numbers should motivate you to do more research and find out more and get past simple statistical analyses.
Admiral Buchannan
July 25th, 2005 at 1:56 pm
Hey…woke up at 2:25 AM today with you on my mind. Since I don’t wake up easily…I spent some time before the Father. Don’t know what was happening with either you or Sarah. But…though this doesn’t happen often…I’ve learned to pay attention. So, Adam, prayers continue. Hurry home.
July 25th, 2005 at 11:52 pm
Admiral ?? Gosh, Adam. I thought that was what you were doing?
Thanks for bringing the numbers to life, Adam. Thanks for bringing context to the news. Through your blog I have heard the voice of the Palestinians and their suffering. I have heard the arguements for Israel all my life from the church and family members. Now I’ve heard both sides (at least a little, nothing can replace personal experience … but then, I’m sure your critics have already spent their time in the region?)
It is never right to take another persons life for any reason. Period.
Christ did not condemn those who were undeniably in the wrong.
Hard for us humans to do? You bet. Good thing we had God’s son to set the example.
July 26th, 2005 at 2:11 am
Even Gandhi, the posterboy for nonvioloence said that if a madman came at his family with a machine gun, Gandhi would shoot back to kill the madman.
Then again, Socrates said it was better to suffer than to do harm.
Where does JC fit in? Should we let the psycho muslims kill the world and take over? Is this what JC asks?
July 26th, 2005 at 2:33 pm
In response to Harry Davidson…
It is important to remember that “madmen” take many forms and that it is naive to reduce certain things to such distinctions.
as for “psycho muslims”…I am sure JC would not have engaged in such blatant and unacceptable prejudice.
remember, there are 1 billion muslims in the world and to paint them all with the same brush is completely ignorant. There are and have been many crazies in this world who act in the name of various religions (something that is very easy to forget). How would you feel if someone denouced you based on the actions of a few who claim to share your religion? Do unto others…
July 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
in response to anonymous…
I would feel angry if someone put words in my mouth and assumed I am painting all muslims as psycho’s. Hello! Did I say that? NO. I said psycho muslimes. I.E. those muslims who happen to be psycho’s. If I wanted to refer to all muslims I would have just used the word muslims. But instead I am only referring to those muslims whom happen to be psyhco’s, hence I said “psyhco muslims.
Furthmore, I think Jesus would refer to pysho muslims (as well as psyhco Jews and psycho Christians) as evil. Afterall, Jesus does denounce evil does he not. I don’t think Jesus would treat satan with love and respect, do you? Jesus calls it like it is. Psycho muslims are evil. Anonymous, think next time before you post. Stop taking me out of context and stop assuming you know what I mean. You do to me exactly what you accuse me off…taking me out of context and judging based on nothing.
My question is legite: how does one square the ethics of Socrates, Gandhi and Jesus? Especially when a madman (whether it be a pshycho muslim, pyscho Jew of psycho Christian) comes at your family with a machine gun?
July 26th, 2005 at 5:03 pm
Harry,
Maybe, just maybe, you can’t “square ethics.”
July 26th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
Harry Davidson…
If I took your comments out of context then I apologize. I just found it surprising that you mentioned psycho muslims at all considering that the post had nothing to do with that. If you meant to discuss the prospect of letting any religious fanatics take over then phrasing it in more general terms might have been more effective. Nevertheless, the question you pose is interesting…it is easier to practice a nonviolent approach when you and your family are not directly on the receiving end. But I think the ethical question comes into play when you are indirectly affected by a situation and are witness to it. Trying to protect one’s family is instinctual (you don’t have to be in a warzone for such instincts to kick in). If someone came up to my family with a gun I would do anything to stop them. But that is a very different scenario than attacking or arresting an individual(s) who might look to be carrying a gun they intend to use on us. Trying to wrestle with violence when there is no direct face to it is where the ethical dilemma comes into play.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
Thanks for bringing this to light, Adam …
Another resource that puts each of those numbers in their own particular, very sad context … http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2000.html
peace.
July 26th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
Anonymous,
I was responding to what David West wrote, “It is never right to take another persons life for any reason. Period.”
Thus is it right to kill a madman (pyscho muslim, jew or christian) who comes at your family with a gun? According to David West, no? Accodring to Socrates, no. According to Gandhi, yes. Where does Jesus come in? I’m sure you’ll give me a very Hauerwasian answer by telling me that I am asking the wrong question….
whatever….
July 26th, 2005 at 10:34 pm
just wanted to drop in and let you know that you’ve been in my prayers - thank you so much for sharing what you have been… much peace to you .
i think we all have so much to learn… perhaps one day (maybe not on this earth) we’ll finally understand what peace is.
July 27th, 2005 at 12:25 am
Thanks, I’m flattered that i am in your prayers and you don’t even know me. You are in mine as well.
amen
Harry