We all love seminary!
February 1, 2005
Gotta love the blogging support from Mark and fellow PTSer Kellen. Their support was in reference to a ton of comments I got on my “I Love Seminary” post. I still do love seminary: love the parties, love the people, the support, the love, the moments of confusion, the hard times, the professors, papers and classes, the snow, the cooks, the mail-room workers, groundsworkers, janitors…
Some of the comments to that post were pretty ridiculous. I’m glad that some of you are able to make judgments about me based on that picture…pretty impressive.
Tags: Seminary
Posted in Random
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
February 1st, 2005 at 2:48 am
As a friend of Micah I can assure you that he wasn’t making a threat. I believe that he was trying to point out how the picture you presented would look to a PNC or a session board that supports PTS. I can only speak for myself on what I’m about to say, but the picture and caption in your post make Princeton Theological Seminary look like it should be renamed Party “Theological” Seminary. As a seminarian at a more conservative institution, I can assure you that your picture of seminary is not representative. The picture I would have chosen would have included the prayer, spiritual formation, and theological aspects of seminary, not just the booze and party aspects. To rebuke those who criticized you for making judgments based on that picture is to miss how that picture (mis)represents not only you but also the institution you attend. I believe that was Micah’s point. If I were on a session board or PNC considering a PTS candidate and saw that post, I would be reluctant to hire the candidate. While it is ultimately your blog and you will post as you see fit, the amount of traffic you get brings with it certain degree of responsibility that I hope will make you want to represent yourself, your school, and your Savior well.
Shalom.
February 1st, 2005 at 8:04 am
Dear Adam,
Ideas shouldn’t be threatening, though I guess my post must have had an effect to merit that response.
You put out ideas and representations of your impression of seminary in a public forum, as is your right. I don’t know why you wouldn’t expect there to be some criticism, as well as enthusiastic support (judgment runs both ways).
Anyway, being open to dialogue means more than just hearing everything you want to hear. If you’d like to talk more sometime over coffee about where we differ, and where we agree, at the risk of us both being challenged, email me and we can meet at Frist or Mackay, or what-have-you (or a beer perhaps? that would have some irony to it).
I did not intend to threaten you, and regret that’s the impression you took. I am glad, however, that you may think more now about your future calling in relation to how you represent yourself in school preparing for that call. I don’t know that you’re PCUSA, or what, but your site is easily found, and will be easily accessed by members of a PNC or of a youth group you may be called to serve. Perhaps a bulletin board . . .
If you are PCUSA, then you know the denomination still has sticks-in-the-mud like me, and others. Anyway, take care.
February 1st, 2005 at 3:46 pm
I’m not a regular reader, but linked to this because of Mark’s supportive post concerning this on his blog, The Lepper Colony. Micah’s comment didn’t sound like a threat, but a reminder about how far responsibility for blog posting runs. It has been hard enough for me to run the candidacy system in the ELCA as a former PCUSA member, but I am very careful with my public presentation of myself on the web because I know my blog is a Google away. (And if I was a candidacy committee member, I would Google my candidates as a matter of course.)
But your life is your life, Adam. I support your freedom to make your choices, but I think Micah is right in warning you that the people who will hire you and may be in charge of your candidacy may see this and may not be as thrilled with your choices as you are. Just a word of concern from a fellow seminarian who supports your ability to choose, but not your right to taint the rest of us by association.
February 1st, 2005 at 4:05 pm
How can we be tainted by Adam’s right? Adam’s right to choose has no effect on me by association. If you think he is wrong by his actions just say that. It really has no bearing on your image. If image is what drives our keeping people accountable then we have it backwards. We should be accountable to how we treat and care for people in the name of Christ, not that a little club is given a bad name because one of its members chooses freedom in a way that is not agreed upon by others. I commend Adam for living his life in the open. If that leads to the organized church stepping away from him then better for him than to be linked to an image bound organization.
February 1st, 2005 at 4:30 pm
Curiouser and curiouser…
I am having an interesting day of reading and following this blog as I am sure others who are reading this and join with me as we sadly mourn the future of the church.
I am afraid that you guys have become what others warned you would become by going to seminary…
“Party on, Wayne.
Party on, Garth.”
February 1st, 2005 at 5:12 pm
Damn, David, I couldn’t have said it better myself. THANK YOU, sir.
— kp
February 1st, 2005 at 5:25 pm
Adam, did you know that your site comes up first under miscillaneous links on Wikipedia for the term “Emerging Church?”
February 1st, 2005 at 6:15 pm
Well Adam I must ask, doesn’t Paul ask us to avoid causing our fellow brothers to stumble? And here you go ‘causing’ other bloggers to display the alcohol and proclaim their love for seminary…for shame, for shame.
I hope you feel better.
Actually, i have in the past made blatant, generalizing claims from reading this here blog and have found that if one were to read mine, they would, in fact, find me unfit to lead anyone. However, I’m pretty sure we aren’t. So, Adam I still say there needed to be a Newcastle in that pic or in a further proclamation of seminary love.
peace
February 1st, 2005 at 6:22 pm
Wow Dave…I wonder how that happened….Wikipedia isn’t open source, is it? ;)
February 1st, 2005 at 7:47 pm
I think most of my problems lie in the explicit ego that runs through most of Adam’s posts. (e.g. his new “contest”) Name dropping here, promoting himself there. I have to agree with TonyB’s thoughts on the future leaders of our church. Just seems to be a lot of ego/pride. Ironic really.
February 1st, 2005 at 8:24 pm
I once again have to say something in defense of Adam. Brad, have you met him? I have and spent some good time with him. He is the least egotistical person I know. He is enthusiastic and including and that is why he shares so much of his life in the blog. It is not self promotion, it is vulnerability. So much criticism aimed at a 24 guy who is well on his way to becoming a leader of the church. I wish I was as humble and mature when I was 24. I don’t mean to turn this into an anonymous pissing match, but I have to say that the personal accusations in Adam’s direction is inappropriate.
February 1st, 2005 at 8:53 pm
wow… whatever happened to “judge not lest ye be judged?” i’ve been reading adam’s blog for a couple weeks now, and i would not assume that i could tell you a whole lot about his character. i could tell you that he seems like a fun and down to earth guy, who if we were at the same seminary i would probably include in my circle of friends. but that is just conjecture, as i have never met him. so i would dare not make such judgments about him.
when i did my unit of clinical pastoral education as a chaplain in a hospital, i was told that often people’s reactions towards us are more a reflection on them than on us. so just consider that, adam, as you read some of these less than nice comments, well, and the nice ones, too!
and as for a lot of you, why don’t you pay attention to the plank you got hanging out of your eye before you go about telling someone else all the intricacies of the speck in their eye… just a thought.
God bless,
mark
February 1st, 2005 at 9:01 pm
wow… i can’t feed my ego and shamelessly promote myself if i can’t even get my blog address correct… so i needed to post another comment.
February 1st, 2005 at 10:35 pm
hey adam, tonight in greek we talked about how much wine is referenced in the water-into-wine deal, and the hookah image came back to my mind. i thought of you and this glorious conversation going on on your blog. then i talked to seth about you (do you remember him? we went to that skanky bar in nashville with him.)
cant wait to see what you post for shrove tuesday.
February 1st, 2005 at 11:06 pm
it’s funny. i read the gospel that tells us of the earliest events in the ministry of Jesus. the first place he goes to find his disciples was the sea shore. not the “pts” of his day but rather the stock yard. the place where those who failed in the formal education of the jewish rank and file are left to sweat and toil for the rest of their days.
Jesus’ earliest followers, and the ones who triggered the Church that is alive today (alive but maybe not well), were the guys who posted a picture of one to many empty wineskins on their blogs and made the Pharisees a little uneasy. so they found themselves slaving away in the boats, wondering why the system chewed them up and spit them out.
then out of nowhere a man named Jesus calls to them, honoring their heart and passion, not their brains or tact or appropriateness.
i find it “small” that we boil someone’s character down to a posted image. who are we to say if peter didn’t have a blog and had a little supershot handy and he snapped a shot at the table after dinner and it would look so drastically different?(fyi, this is JUST an example, not to alarm some of the more “literal” types in the crowd).
with the attitude of some on these comments to adam i imagine you’d have to ignore the psalms, because after all, david was a murderer and a adulterer. you’d have to throw out the value of MLK’s efforts cause we all know he chased all that extra marital tail around.
seriously, i want to puke……..or wait. maybe that’s all the jack and coke mixed with the pain pills and the cocaine. don’t worry, i play in a rock band so it’s expected right?
February 2nd, 2005 at 12:43 am
I had a professor (yes, a professor, not someone who has a blog, either) make a joke about how Jesus would turn over in his grave if he saw half the things that seminary students did. After the collective gasp disappated, he explained himself (probably because a lot of us didnt get the joke;). If Jesus were in his grave, Jesus might roll over, but the point is that Jesus is not in his grave.
I propose a different approach…let’s magnify our flaws. let’s post pictures of our tempers, the bread rolls we take from the cafeteria without paying, the lustful thoughts that tumble through our heads (whether we are married or not), the fact that we type these things on computers, in many ways the the symbol of our ridiculous wealth (built on the backs of slaves). let’s make it as big as possible, and then let’s think about Peter’s denial. And Judas’ betrayal. And Thomas’ doubt that Jesus had risen. And the disciples fear and doubt when they locked themselves in a room. Even the best hearts in this world have dark spots. And when we stack them all up, Jesus still says to us at the table, “Take, drink, for this is my blood poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I shall not drink from this cup again until I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Strong words, especially when you consider the company at the table. Judas, Peter, Thomas, and the rest. Hardly paragons of virtue. On most days, I could drown myself in the wake of my sins, but Jesus said those words to everyone, so there is hope.
February 2nd, 2005 at 1:45 am
In all honesty… I’ve never posted here before. I had a gut feeling/reaction. It was stupid to post. Who am I to say anything to a man I have never met. 100% my bad, and my apologies.
February 2nd, 2005 at 9:35 am
Jamey, the bread rolls in the cafeteria are free. They don’t charge for those. Eat up.
February 2nd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Wow, I had no idea this post would cause so much ruckus. I really don’t know what to think about all of these posts…but you can be sure I’ll be posting about it soon…until then, Systematic Theology calls. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but one thing I think is cowardly is anonymous posting…so Jimi, I don’t know if you are real or not, but I know it is a PTS IP address, so…feel free to comment again and use a real email address. Thanks.