I love seminary.
January 28, 2005
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Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
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January 28th, 2005 at 6:07 pm
If only Whitworth’s campus had been that cool…
January 28th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
Nice…can I come over! :)
January 28th, 2005 at 7:06 pm
I’ll be there tomorrow night! Got some tobacco? I’ve got some excellent stuff I picked up in London.
January 28th, 2005 at 8:34 pm
Wow. Who’d have thought the Presbys would be having more fun than us Episcopal seminarians? ;)
January 28th, 2005 at 8:40 pm
hey adam, we’re gonna have to hire you at church of the apostles, as we own two hookahs (one with four hoses) ;-) + see, karen, episcopalians do have lots of fun!
January 28th, 2005 at 10:15 pm
whoa….easy on the captain matey!! and it looks like you might need a vino upgrade.
January 29th, 2005 at 2:49 am
Dude, there’s a distinct lack of quality Pacific NW microbrews.
I mean, c’mon, Killians Irish Red is about as Irish as Kofi Annan…
http://www.ratebeer.com/Ratings/Beer/Beer-Ratings.asp?BeerID=2331
January 29th, 2005 at 8:44 am
what’s the tea pot for?
January 29th, 2005 at 9:03 am
What is the Middle-Eastern-flavored-tobacco-smoking-thing called? In France, we called it “sheesha” — what’s it called in English?
January 29th, 2005 at 12:04 pm
what? no Newcastle….i pray for you!
oh wait…the negro!!…good seminarian’s.
January 29th, 2005 at 12:52 pm
That picture adequately sums up last night’s experience — variety, potency, craziness.
January 29th, 2005 at 10:27 pm
While drinking and smoking do often occur at PTS, and I’m not condemning the activities, as I do both… Why do you feel such a need to glorify it. Far too many of your posts seek to glamorize this facet of your life… almost like an undergrad who still thinks that drinking parties are cool. Perhaps this is where your readers are at… but you’re in grad school, Adam, and seminary to boot. Maybe its time to reconsider how you conceptualize where you’re at and what you are doing here.
January 30th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
wow. smoking comment there jimi.
this is something a lot of seminaries struggle with, i think. a lot of of students, myself included, came from baptist campuses and are fleshing out the continuum of grace. it’s a process. but on the other hand, it’s grad school–it’s time to dig in and take these things for real. i wish that i had realized it while in seminary instaead of after, it’s never too late.
January 30th, 2005 at 10:20 pm
sounds like someone, wink wink, needs to smoke a marijuana cigarette to chill out. i read somewhere that it was highly probable that Jesus himself smoked the “green”. But i’m pretty damn sure he didn’t drink killians red.
January 30th, 2005 at 10:39 pm
“Sin boldly,” says Luther, an esteemed beer drinker himself.
My personal theory: John wrote revelation while high, or stoned-choose your euphemism.
My other personal theory: drinking is cool. Jesus liked to do it a fair bit.
January 31st, 2005 at 12:40 am
One would have to be stoned to believe that Jesus smoked weed or that John was high when he wrote Revelation.
January 31st, 2005 at 12:45 am
Jimi - a PTS student…but no PTS-email? Why the desire for anonymity? Don’t think we’re glorifying it here, bro. I think it’s pretty damn funny that I have a sheeshah, and I think it’s okay to share that with the blogging-world. Thanks for your thoughts though…we all toasted to your comments as we took our third tequila shot tonight!
January 31st, 2005 at 1:46 am
timbo-one would have to be stoned to be as certain as you are about things that have happened where they were not present to witness.
January 31st, 2005 at 9:44 am
LOOK AT ME! I’M CRAZY ANONYMOUS-AND-MATURE-PERSON! I LOVE BEING BOTH ANONYMOUS AND SPIRITUALLY MATURE AT THE SAME TIME! YAY FOR ME! I AM GOOD AND NOT AS IMMATURE AS THOSE DUMB UNDERGRADUATE-TYPE FOOLS LIKE ADAM! YAY FOR ANONYMITY!
January 31st, 2005 at 9:55 am
Zach, you were not there either, and I don’t have to be able to prove that Jesus never smoked weed or that John was not high when he wrote Revelation to be highly skeptical of claims that these things did happen and to be epistemically justified in my certainty that they didn’t happen. What is so problematic about being certain of something?
January 31st, 2005 at 10:38 am
of course, i wasn’t there, but i was never claiming to have my biblical history all tidy in my ziplock bag. i merely through out a possiblity, a joke really, but you felt obligated to defend with your “certainty”. if my tone seemed so “certian” to you, then I apologize. I felt I made it clear that the my was not a claiming of historical events, but more a jokeful comment.
And to answer your question, in matters of faith, certainty is highly problematic and so not the point.
January 31st, 2005 at 4:22 pm
i’m sorry, but that picture is just sad and is an example of how relativistic our future church leaders are becoming. i’m all about having a beer or a glass of wine, and i love cigars, but what happened to moderation and worrying about stumbling your brother in Christ? People sitting here talking about Jesus doing drugs and laughing away somebody’s concern by taking another shot and then bragging about it, all you’re doing is showing love to yourself, not your brother like Christ commanded us to. Sad.
January 31st, 2005 at 4:59 pm
so it’s ok to take little sips of kettle one and captain morgan’s but it’s not ok to take a picture with the obvious intent of sarcasm? maybe to moderate one’s moderation isn’t a bad thing either. moderate drunks are the worst kind.
January 31st, 2005 at 5:06 pm
As a sociologist and an athiest I love to check out these blogs to see what christians are all about. I do find it interesting as I read Adam’s glorification of drinking, stealing from Apple Computers, blaming them for the error, and then brushing it aside since he hasn’t taken an Ethics course yet, that you are no different from those in my circles. I could put your blog on a secular site and it would fit right in. Is that the goal of the post-modern church movement? Interesting…
January 31st, 2005 at 5:22 pm
Adam, I hope you’ll at least be open to thinking about some of this stuff… especially what Nick said. You have a responsibility to others - most of all younger readers. Sure, it might sound a little condecending, but nobody intends it that way.
January 31st, 2005 at 5:30 pm
Zack, I don’t think sarcasm was the intent. I might be wrong, but it came across more like self-promotion to me.
January 31st, 2005 at 5:34 pm
Who are y’all who have NEVER posted a comment before…a little alcohol and a sheeshah and all of a sudden they’re coming out of the walls!
January 31st, 2005 at 5:53 pm
as the light-hearted tenor of some of the comments has been lost, i guess we should all be serious.
of course, in doing so we fall into a trap that has plagued the church for, oh, almost 2000 years. we are so quick to quell anything that resembles a good time. does this involve necessarily drinking and smoking hookahs? no. are those things prohibited anywhere in the bible? not as far as i know. Jesus was at a wedding where they ran out of wine, and i think it is pretty safe to exegete the passage in this way: they ran out of wine because they drank it. Jesus didnt condemn the guests for drinking too much. no, he made MORE wine. Ecclessiastes tells us, “Go, eat your bread and drink your wine with merriment, for God has long ago blessed what you do” (9:7).
why do we have a hard time being merry? i sympathize with those who are new the table and may not have recognized the sarcasm/wit/irony in some of the comments. we meant no harm. irony is biblical. humor is biblical.
for those of you who are new to this discussion area, i do sympathize with your concern. i do not, however, sympathize with prosteletizing. how easy it is to cast stones.
January 31st, 2005 at 7:16 pm
Ironic that PTS was founded in 1812 because of a perception that the university was becoming too liberal.
Either the showcasing of the booze and other stuff is immature or not. If it is immature, those who not mature enough to recognize it as such aren’t likely to be persuaded by argument or example otherwise. If they could be, there wouldn’t be the problem.
Leaving aside the question of whether the freedom Christ died to give us is well-used in this instance, it’s hard to see how the display doesn’t show a disregard to the communities to which seminiarians are purportedly learning to be of service. These are the communities underwriting the discounted cost of PTS’ education, as well as providing for future employment, even “calling”. It’s one thing to shake off old prohibitions, another to celebrate indulgence. This isn’t sinning boldly, taking such pictures to sessions and PNC’s would be.
It is easy to cast stones, as it is to make a judgment, which is all that is being done. Are you really telling people they are wrong to say someone else is wrong? Pot/kettle? (perhaps this is the one unforgivable sin . . .)
January 31st, 2005 at 9:52 pm
I’d still like to understand Adam’s bragging about stealing a battery from Apple. How do you justify that as a believer in God? I understand the falleness of man or original sin you speak of, but to brag about it? I hope your seminary or your faith can shed some light on that.
January 31st, 2005 at 10:48 pm
As a fellow seminarian (albeit a lutheran one), when i saw the picture i just smiled an understanding smile, and chuckled. in my time at seminary, i have imbibed my share of alcohol, sometimes to excess. is it wrong? if it becomes a problem, and affects the way i daily behave, or if it becomes harmful to myself or someone else, then the line needs to be drawn. if it’s a rare occurence, doesn’t become a pattern of behavior, and doesn’t cause harm to myself or others, then what’s the big deal? it’s a night of stress relief after a really hard day of class. it’s a night of bonding with my friends who understand the struggles and joys that are occurring in my daily life. it’s socializing with people who are in my position who realize I AM HUMAN and capable of making mistakes and not being perfect. and it’s not like he’s putting up signs that say “get drunk and stoned. it’s fun and God wants you to.” he posted a picture of some alcohol and a hookah (i’ve always called it a hookah… am i weird?) with the caption “i love seminary.” and maybe i’m just gifted, but i was able to see the humor in it.
so i think adam, in this instance, is able to pull a jerry springer and yell “you don’t know me!” to those who question his integrity and character.
as for the battery from apple? i will not comment on that, because i have never been put in that situation. and although i would like to say “of course i’d send it back. i’m a wonderful man with a glorious Christian character!” i don’t know what i would do in that position (but thank you Adam for being honest with us).
okay, i’m done. and you’re more than welcome to visit my blog, but if you’re just going to fill my comments with judgmental garbage, then please stay away.
January 31st, 2005 at 11:14 pm
timz, for an atheist, you’re rooting pretty hard against your own team at the moment. i am a devil worshiper for a living and i know and am friends with MANY spirited and practicing atheists. the last they they would be doing is stressing on the moral character of a seminary student on a blog. they would much rather be killing baby seals and snatching purses from old ladies. i mean, if we are gonna generalize and hold up expectations for both sides of the spiritual aisle, then let’s do so to the fullest.
February 1st, 2005 at 12:32 am
Wow! Booze and smokes get the quiet folks up in a lather. I know Adam from seminary and he is the terrible person that you all are talking about. I really think that he will indeed lead young people astray and propel the church into a downward spiral solely based on his ability to digitally capture some bottles and a sheeshah. Oh no wait…I do know Adam personally and he is a great guy who is seeking his way in genuine faith. Put that in your sheeshah and smoke it…or piously don’t. Mark, thanks for seeing this picture for what it is.
February 1st, 2005 at 9:03 am
A response to all: I had no idea when I make my comment to Adam that it would spark such brouhaha.
First, I don’t have any problem with the “sheesha.” I’ve smoke from them myself. The “sheesha” is not the issue I was raising. If Adam just wanted to show the world that he has one, he would have just posted a picture of it… O’ wait he did… If any of you thought about it… I didn’t comment on the solo picture of it a few posts earlier. I don’t think owning one or smoking from it is a big deal at all. I am, rather, commenting on this one post, which portrays a certain quality that many of his earlier posts concerning partying on campus portray, that is, the inclination to say “hey… look there is a lot of drinking and merry making going on!” To what end does this serve, probably none, and he is probably just letting the world know what and where he’s at in life. And Adam, if that’s where you’re at… more power to you. But anyone with eyes can surmise that a glorification of these “activities” is present on this site.
Second, I didn’t say anything about pot… I don’t think Adam is smoking pot from it, nor do I care if he is… there are many students who smoke around here… and that’s their prerogative, so that diversion in conversation is not of my own doing. Now the comments concerning Jesus and John smoking are a bit off. For those of you who are just joking… good one… ha ha, he he… I actually think those were funny. But for those of you who are trying to justify or create a case for smoking because you “heard” that they, or any other biblical figure smoke… I bet I can guess what you were doing when you came to that conclusion. Just because the Bible doesn’t say they didn’t is not a reason to say that they did. That is horrible logic (the converse is a logical fallacy as well).
Jamey: Perhaps you should take the Luther class before you leave, because your understanding of the reformer‚Äôs assertion is a gross misinterpretation. Concerning your ‚Äútheories:‚Äù I‚Äôll take the first one as humor, and hope the second on is as well, because if you think that ‚Äúdrinking is cool‚Äù your just like the jr. high kid on the corner of the 7-11 smoking cigarettes because he thinks it looks cool. No one is trying to squelch drinking and we all know that they drank in biblical times. It‚Äôs not about being merry; it‚Äôs about discretion. Drinking beer, wine, scotch, etc… is enjoyable, but if ‚Äúcool‚Äù is your image of them‚Ķ go down to the WaWa and smoke away my developmentally arrested blogger‚Ķ smoke away.
Finally, I again offer up my apologies to Adam… I didn’t intend to call your character into question for the world… I suppose that is one of the inherent risks of having a popular blog. I still, however, believe my question stands: what is our responsibility for discretion concerning our Christian liberties? Just because our technologically advanced society affords us the opportunity to broadcast to the world our lifestyle choices, that doesn’t mean that we should proclaim all of them.
(btw… just joking about the developmentally arrested blogger comment… I can swing with the humor too).
February 1st, 2005 at 10:14 am
I am just a camp guy so I don’t have the learning and degrees that you all have but, golly gee Batman, does anyone else feel like this has been a “Lock In” discussion for a Junior High group gone awry? Very emergent, gentlemen…
February 1st, 2005 at 11:58 am
Ooh, burn! Tony B gets quote of the week, maybe?
I just got asked how graphic depictions of pipe smoking and using words like “badass” reflects on my character.
Pretty well, said I, as I am a badass.
So keep boozing and smoking, Adam. You Princeton kids seem pretty cool…
February 1st, 2005 at 2:42 pm
I find all of this really interesting…I’m pretty sure I’m done commenting on this. I still think it’s interesting that “Jimi” (a fellow PTS student) continues to desire to remain anonymous. Why Jimi?
February 1st, 2005 at 3:27 pm
the irony is that my arrested development is probably accurate (good joke, by the way;). as for the “cool” comments, yes, they were a joke, based primarily on dissonance. the idea that Jesus would talk about drinking being cool is silly, because cool is not something that concerned Jesus terribly. in fact, Jesus is the antithesis to cool; he was crucified, after all-not a punishment reserved for the cool. Jesus did the same sort of thing (the log in the eye bit is the best example off the top of my head).
the double irony is that i am like the junior high kid…just like all of us, in the sense that we are all sinners. guilty, right here. perhaps more so than most. but until we engage the realities of who we are (in terms of our shortcomings, whatever they may be), then we cannot comprehend fully what Grace means. this is pretty standard theological fare, at least in reformed theological circles. one way to acknowledge, embrace, and remind ourselves just how flawed we are is to talk about them, and there are plenty of ways to talk about them. i choose humor because i find it to be effective in making points. that is not the only way to do so. others write systematic theology papers. a lot of us preach. some publish books about it. whatever floats your boat, ya know?
as for Luther…well, i did take the course, and I discussed the sin boldly quote with both prof and preceptor. that, too, was in jest.
peace to all my brothers and sisters. i am going to follow cleave’s lead and check out of this discussion, though i have enjoyed it.
February 2nd, 2005 at 2:15 pm
Thanks for playing…