Homosexuality and Christian Community: Pt 1
December 23, 2004
Over the break, in addition to learning Hebrew, reading Old Testament and writing my three big papers, I’ve been reading Seow’s Homosexuality and Christian Community. It’s a collection of 13 essays by past and current Princeton Seminary professors, and it’s fabulous. Over the course of the 13 essays, you’ll most likely run across almost every position that can be had on the issue, and I really appreciate that. However, the more essays I read that call for a re-evaluation of the current/majority view on homosexuality, the more I find myself in agreement. It’s going to take a lot to convince me to believe that homosexuality is a sin and that we shouldn’t be fully welcoming all people into the ministry of the word and sacrament.
Over the course of the next few weeks, I’ll be posting thoughts and new ideas I run across while reading these essays. Feel free to comment (like you always can) on the posts, but please…let’s see if we can get away from just throwing up the same Lev 18.22-30, Romans 1.26-32, 1 Cor 6.9-11 type of stuff. Let’s look at this issue with grace, love and a humility that expresses our finitude.
Tags: Homosexuality, Sexuality, Theology
Posted in 
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
December 23rd, 2004 at 8:26 am
Hi, Adam. Robert Gagnon’s book, _The Bible and Homosexual Practice_, is the most exhaustive defense of the traditional position that I’ve come across. Maybe you’ve already read it. I find his exegetical arguments especially challenging and often convincing. I haven’t read _Homosexuality and Christian Community_ yet, but I hope to next semester.
December 23rd, 2004 at 10:44 am
i echo the Gagnon book. it’s massive. i’ll truncate my thoughts in this way: the arguments about socialization and racism and social theory ultimately don’t wash for me, mostly because homosexuality seems to put being gay at the center of the identity, whereas Christ calls us to put our call to follow Christ at the center of our identity. it’s been a long road to get here, and i agree with you about the welcoming, but i can no more agree with the affirming of homosexual practice than i can of greed or lust or materialism in the church. it has to be struggled with–that’s the call of the Gospel, to follow and struggle with what we have been given, whatever our inclinations.
December 23rd, 2004 at 11:16 am
I recommend looking at a chapter Richard B. Hays’ book, _The Moral Vision of the New Testament_. He’s the main NT scholar at Duke and is very fair and thorough in the way that he looks at the text. He devoted a chapter of this book to the homosexuality issue, and it has been the most influencial piece of writing for me on the topic. I came to the book with the assumption that homosexuality is not a sin; I came out of it convinced that the scriptures teach that it is a sin. It changed my mind on the issue, and I haven’t found anything of that caliber to switch me back.
The rest of the book is a classic and worth reading anyway, but the chapter on homosexuality is only thirty pages long and an easy read. I recommend that sometime in your discussion of this issue you interact with it. In my mind, it is the absolute best representative of the “homosexuality is a sin” viewpoint, so if you’re going to hold the other position, you have to account for its arguments.
December 23rd, 2004 at 12:42 pm
good one, keith. i’d forgotten that chapter. it’s probably the best thing out there, and comes from one reacting against the left, not a fundy from the right, which gives it more credence for me.
December 23rd, 2004 at 1:20 pm
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Adam. As you say when we discuss this issue may grace govern the dialogue.
December 23rd, 2004 at 11:57 pm
Adam, thanks for the boldness in raising this important issue facing the church. I agree wholeheartedly with the tenor with which you propose we carry out the conversation. Two items: (1) Why is your “default” position in favor of the notion that homosexual practice is not sin, needing to be convinced otherwise? I.e. why is the burden of proof on the side of the position that has been held by a huge majority of Christians not only today but for 2000 years? What has shaped your own presumptions if not the church through which you received the gift of faith? (2) While I agree that we cannot simply quote Scripture and be done with it, I hope that your discussion will involve responsible interpretation of those texts of Holy Scripture that do explicitly treat of homosexual practice, e.g. Romans 1. I think part of the discussion ought to be: are these texts saying what they appear to be saying, and if not, why? Or if so, then why set them aside? Looking forward to more musings….
December 24th, 2004 at 2:37 am
Thanks for the comments folks. I’ve heard of the Gagnon book, but I’ve also heard from Pittsburgh Seminary folks about how Gagnon comes across and how he deals with the issue (outside of his exegetically good arguments in the book) - and he doesn’t sound like someone who really wants to focus on love, grace or our human finitude with this issue…
Hays’ chapter is one I will definitely be reading - thanks for the recommendation. This isn’t going to be “Adam’s Exhaustive” look into the issue of homosexuality, so don’t be expecting anything amazing here folks. But I will be looking at texts, I will be looking at socio-cultural stuff…and yes, I will be looking at how the role of experience plays into this whole discussion.
Jim, this isn’t necessarily my “default” position, but it is where I have come to (this should be a post in itself) after thinking about it, but more importantly, by the experiences I’ve had and hearing about the experiences of fellow gay and lesbian Christian brothers and sisters. Some say that experience can’t really play into this discussion…that scripture has to be your authority. But I don’t see how experience can NOT play into your thoughts on this issue. Experience affects the way we read the Bible (whether it is your authority or not)…and, as I will get to later, some argue that even in scripture itself, we get the support for truth being able to be found outside of revelation from God or from scripture.
So experience is key here…
December 24th, 2004 at 3:39 am
Here’s an outrageous thought:
Everyone put down their books, put on their shoes, go find a gay person (or, even better, a gay couple in a long-term, stable relationship), and make friends with them.
And then come back and talk to us.
Peace.
December 24th, 2004 at 7:16 am
okay, mike. i’m ready. nothing like some best friends over ten years to form your opinion on this subject. oh, and living in the lesbian mom capital of america helps, too.
December 24th, 2004 at 11:03 am
I agree with what Jim had to say and I thought I would throw in another thought if you will.
Sin is something that we learn of through the Bible, without the Bible, I would not know what sin was and we are sinners in need of a Savior.
You are questioning if homosexuality is a sin or not. You, from what I have read, seem to be relying on your experiences.
That is all great, but if we are trying to find if homosexuality is a sin or not, should we turn to the place (the Bible) where we discovered something called sin, not to our experiences as mortal and not all-knowing humans.
I would highly suggest turning to the book that has defined what sin is in our lives, written by the God who is all-knowing, to discover whether or not homosexuality is a sin.
God bless.
December 24th, 2004 at 11:29 am
Michael F. wrote:
“Sin is something that we learn of through the Bible, without the Bible, I would not know what sin was ”
I find that remarkable, and also 100% untrue in my own experience. I grew up outside the church (I was, however, baptized as an infant) yet I knew what was “right” and what was “wrong”, (even if I might not have called “wrong”, “sin”, and even though I did plenty of “wrong”) and not by any means just from my parents or school or whoever. I always felt I had an inner sense of rightness and wrongness.
Looking back I attribute that to God - how I was made and how the Holy Spirit guides us regardless of whether we have made an adult confession of faith.
I also guess that came from being beaten up occasionally at school - that always somehow felt wrong to me, and I didn’t need the Bible to tell me…
December 24th, 2004 at 12:07 pm
My question in this entire debate is why so many are so eager to define homosexuality as a sin. So many (not necessarily on this discussion) adopt a prohibitive tenor in their words; homosexuality is SO bad that we need to cement the view in our own minds, or remind our brothers and sisters what sin is. Two things come to mind. First, pride is also a sin, and from what I read in Scripture, a far greater problem. Pride is the root of the whole mess that we race to define in terms that suits our lives. So much of the debate sounds to me like folks bent on making sure that their position is right. I am guilty of this very thing by typing an argument. Chalk up a sin in my column.
What do we as individuals or the church have to gain by arguing so vehemently that homosexuality is a sin? Division, alienation, people who believe in Jesus Christ feeling like they are inferior because of how they feel. This pain is real. If you do not believe me, I echo Adam’s words; go and talk to a gay person.
My second point is this: even if homosexuality were a sin, which I decidedly do NOT believe, so what? Sure, gay people sin, but their identity is not a sin. The very people who condemn homosexuality have awfully dirty hands. We all do. Why are we willing to risk splitting the church up over homosexuality, but we are o.k. with sweeping other, more common sins in ministers under the rug? I have heard a lot of ministers glorify their own ministry from the pulpit. I have heard a lot of venomous subtexts in sermons that amount to a power play on the minister’s part; isn’t the idea of using the pulpit as a way to make a point in a disagreement a bit of a sin? How about ministers who beat and cheat on their wives/husbands? My point is that Jesus prohibits specifically pointing out another’s sins, unless we have looked honestly at ourselves. Even if homosexuality were a sin, then from what I gather in the Bible, the only people who could condemn it would be those who have NEVER lusted (with respect to sexuality, let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone), or maybe Jesus himself (which as far as I know, he never did), because we all have logs in our own eyes.
To close, I have to say that this issue makes me sad. The Church is inclusive. Jesus shook this world up because God needed to remind us that the things we value in our lives (money, property, bling, etc) are not worth a damn thing. Those things nailed Jesus to a piece of splintery wood, and all the guy did was hang out with lepers and other folks who no one loved. A big part of why I believe in Jesus was that he loved the people who no one else loved. Inclusive love means everyone. In and through Christ, all are saved.
Merry Christmas to all.
December 25th, 2004 at 9:25 pm
What’s the lesbian mom capital of America?
Excellent post Jamey, I agree with you.
For those who say homosexuality is a sin: I know a young Christian who thought that she was a mistake and a sin since she was homosexual and Christians all around her were telling her homosexuality is a sin.
She never acted on her homosexuality or had relationships with other females because she knew that God wouldn’t approve. But that didn’t seem to be good enough for the other Christians since _being_ homosexual was a sin. Because of this, she entered into severe depression and wanted to end her life many times.
This went on till she met some staunch, young Christians abroad including a gay (he once acted on his homosexuality but changed so much after giving his life to Jesus, and he told her he’s now more not-homosexual than homosexual) who told her that God loves her very much homosexual or not, it isn’t her fault and she is _not_ a sin or mistake because God doesn’t make mistakes.
Personally, I feel that homosexuality is not a sin. There’s a problem only it’s acted on. Homosexuals are people as well and need to be loved and accepted like everyone else.