Saved!
July 14, 2004
Just a few quick comments on Saved!, which I saw last weekend. I absolutely loved this movie - thought it gave a pretty accurate portrayal of at least how *many* Christians act/think and definitely how many people view Christians today. Obviously, they were shooting for the satire, and making fun of aspects of Christian culture. However, there was one scene that actually moved me.
In the above picture, Mary (played by Jena Malone) just found out that she is pregnant (which happened when she was trying to “fix” her gay boyfriend Dean). She goes to the clinic downtown to find out for sure, and it shows her getting off the bus, and it’s obvious that she knows it’s true: she, a good Christian girl at a Christian high school, is pregnant. As she gets off the bus, she starts walking home, but for some reason is drawn to a church building with a cross on the outside of it. The camera angle is from above, and switches between her utter despair and the cross on the building. She extends her arms and yells what is probably one of the most honest prayers…(if you are offended by profanity, don’t continue reading)
Shit.
Fuck.
Goddamn.
And she walks on…but how many of us have ever felt that way - that those words, uttered/yelled to God are the only ones that will express our feelings of despair, anger, frustration…thanks Mary for your prayer.
Tags: Jena-Malone, Mandy-Moore, Prayer, Saved
Posted in 
Adam Walker Cleaveland: 
July 15th, 2004 at 2:39 pm
I have been wanting to see this for a while, and will finally get a chance to see it with some friends today. I had a great conversation the other day with some people about who is seeing this movie, and the type of people that should see it probably won’t.
July 15th, 2004 at 9:46 pm
There were some girls at our high school that called themselves the “God Squad.” At first people praised them for their ‘boldness for Christ’ but they did a good job of alienating anyone who didn’t measure up to their standards. I think they had good intentions (mixed in with pride),but it was sad to see how many people got hurt by their actions.
I thought one of the funniest scenes in the movie was when the two ‘outcasts’ see Mary get off the bus downtown and they have the following conversation:
Cassandra - “There’s only one reason why a good little Christian girl would go into a Planned Parenthood”
Roland - “What, she’s planting a pipe bomb?”
Cassandra - “Ok, two reasons”
July 15th, 2004 at 10:58 pm
I understand the frustration that is expressed in those “colorful words” but do you really think that’s a valid prayer? If so, do you think it would call for repentance?
I’m not trying to get in a fight over language, I just don’t understand how those words can be considered a prayer in light of other biblical principles.
Thanks bro.
July 16th, 2004 at 6:07 pm
I’m with Len on this one.
Though I haven’t seen this movie (though Susie’s dad was quite helpul in this endeavor), I want to.
I may get lambasted for judging another’s prayer, but I’m really ok with that, I think.
In Scripture, the Psalms are full of the laments, outbursts, shaking fists and fear. Normal people, normal emotions. Surely Mary, this character in Saved is experincing something similar. From what I know, though, part of prayer, even in the thick of junk, must contain some sort of worship of God. Mary’s words express her frustration, but they are not God-honoring, from what I can tell.
Bro, I think you’re stretching it when you thank Mary for her prayer. There’s gotta be a place where our frustration and our trust can be expressed, even if we don’t feel the latter.
Not the most pomo post, but, hey, when have I ever been all out pomo?
Still excited to see the movie.
July 16th, 2004 at 11:57 pm
While I agree with Josh and Len, I have to point out that at this point in Mary’s life, her perfect little Christian bubble has just exploded. The most important thing in her life had been wearing her special ‘Christian Jewels’ pin, and doing whatever Hillary Faye said. Now, she realizes that all the surfacey things don’t matter anymore. For the first time in her life, she is letting go of all the things associated with keeping up a perfect image, and displaying her honest feelings before God. The method may be questionable, but the honesty is still admirable.
July 17th, 2004 at 5:35 am
Bro Josh.
So no pomo.
But that’s okay. I see your point about the prayer - but still…I’m with Susie on this one. Mary really had nowhere to turn, and I just find it interesting and wonderful that she turns to God and…also interesting that perhaps, even though she was supposed to be the “model Christian” - she really had NO WORDS to express the anger and frustration she felt - so yes…I believe I will stick with my thoughts that it was an incredibly honest prayer. I think God listened. When she did not have the right words to pray, the Spirit prayed for her…through profanity…hmm, interesting ;) ??
July 18th, 2004 at 11:19 am
sometimes i think prayers like that are the first prayers that people like mary have every prayed. the first ones from the truth of the heart.
July 18th, 2004 at 7:50 pm
Good stuff to mull over, thanks for the thoughts, friends.
I still have to wonder if the Holy Spirit, who prays for us, and gives us words to pray, would really give us an prayer such as that as an authentic prayer.
I see what Jen is getting at regarding “first [prayers] from the truth of the heart”, but wonder if profane prayers are simply human expressions for one’s self rather than intimate communication with God.
I know this isn’t a huge thing to debate, but it interests me - I think prayer is an important thing (intimate, a conversation, communion with God), and would never want it to become ho-hum or bastardized.
July 18th, 2004 at 11:59 pm
i think all true prayer is the language of the heart and that what matters is not the choice of words but the pure raw truth that gets captured in whatever spills out of our mouths (or our hearts) how can there be any difference from the “self” and our prayers when they spill from the same raw place?
human expressions of the self directed toward god IS prayer, right? what else is there? everything else is the bastardized, ho-hum construct we use to try to manipulate god into listening to us.
(i really don’t want to debate this either, but i’ve been thinking about prayer lately and it fits somehow)
July 19th, 2004 at 9:29 am
Romans 8
ESV
26Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Sorry Adam, The Spirit doesn’t interecede with profanity. that is something that comes strictly from man. Honest? Maybe. GOD’S way? Hardly. I think you just enjoy pushing people’s buttons. Ms. Lemen, GOD cannot be manipulated. Define the bastardized ho-hum construct. The prayers offered in our fellowship are genuine heart-cry.
All your words, and this movie do is insult GOD’S people. What happens when everything is “de-constructed” to the point where nothing is left, not even a shred of truth? How come the ec can make sweeping generalizations and I can’t?
July 20th, 2004 at 4:26 am
Well Chris, I’m not at the point in my life yet where I can say what the Spirit will do or not do…so I’m going to go ahead and believe that the Spirit could work through profanity as well…if the Spirit had to. You are right though, Chris, that I do like to push people’s buttons…but I don’t just do it to be a jerk…I think people NEED their buttons pushed…I know I need mine pushed to get me thinking, etc…
July 20th, 2004 at 2:42 pm
personally i see the “profanity” as just words. words that we know - words that we feel. how is that different from the lamenting psalms or groanings too deep (and meaningful) for words? He knows what is in our hearts - why should we take the time to cover up the “shit” with something pretty before we tell him?
definitely a prayer - and definitely a first-step.
July 20th, 2004 at 4:23 pm
The psalmists and the Holy Spirit didn’t and don’t use profanity. GOD respects our honesty and sincerity. He allows us to be honest sinners and to be sincerely wrong. Doesn’t do any good to cover up as Psalm 139 well states.
July 21st, 2004 at 7:19 pm
you guys are dealing with too many issues all at the same time, and treating them as if they are all one issue. what’s more you’re not getting any head way on any of them.
the issues here:
*who/what determines is something is profane? culture or God (culture allows cussing, we’d like to believe God doesn’t)
*can God accept profanity our relationship to him?
*what is the process/purpose of sanctification? (that is, once saved does it matter what we do? should we be striving after a lifestyle that would be without meaning if we achieved it? or should we make a meaningful life by striving?)
*i’m sure there are others….
chris p, you seem to say that culture shouldn’t define what is profane, and we should let God, through the Bible, define it. there are ways around your argument that the psalmist doesn’t use profane language. of coarse a poet doesn’t use profane language, it is simply unimaginative and wouldn’t lend itself to good poetry. but the psalmist certainly does address the heart of human emotions whether they be joy or anger (which is what the other side of this argument is struggling with). and at this point, i too would argue that cussing is appropraite in the context of prayer; if only to express something that no other words could express (i still maintain that profanity is unimaginative and a weak attempt at portraying emotions)
et al (adam, stephanie, jen) you really are dismissing chris p too quickly. at least give the guy/girl (?) a few bones for going to the Scriptures to help his/her cause. or is that the distinction between pomo/ec (whatever) and those who ‘don’t get it’…those that ‘don’t get it’ look to the Bible for truth and refer to the Bible to explain truth (i know i’m being over critical here, i’m just trying to balance things a little).
i would like to offer a genuine note of thanks to all involved in this discussion. i have enjoyed it and i think benefited from it. really, no winks, no tongue in cheek satirical salutations, no final ad hominem digs…i really have enjoyed reading this.
God’s peace with you